A book's success comes down to how much an author is willing to pound the pavement and show up for their own work. Today we're joined by Greenleaf author Claire Isenthal to share the ways she’s tailored her content and outreach across different social media platforms to drive book sales, especially through Substack and Booktok.

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Transcript is automatically generated.

Welcome back to Published. Today, we're joined by Greenleaf author, Claire Isenthal.

Most publishers provide some marketing support alongside book launches, but typically success comes down to how much an author is willing to pound the pavement and show up for their own work. We've discussed many ways to build an author platform and promote your work in past episodes, and most of them come down to creating content and engaging online. Today, Claire gives us the author perspective and shares the ways that she's taking control of her publicity to drive book sales, especially through Substack and BookTok.

Now let's dive into the interview.

Tanya: Claire, welcome to Published.

Claire: Thank you so much for having me on.

Tanya: Absolutely. I'm really looking forward to this one. It's a very interesting topic we have this time for our listeners. So why don't we start by having you introduce yourself and at least in the book capacity, tell us about what you do.

Claire: Sure. Of course. Well, hi everyone. My name is Claire Isenthal and I published my debut thriller novel, The Rising Order, for anyone who can see it here (she holds up the book), this past October with Greenleaf Book Group and had just the most wonderful experience with that team. Prior to that, I was working as an account executive for Google in advertising sales and worked there for almost a decade. I have two young children, a four year old and a two year old. And so that makes my life and my writing life very challenging, but I am learning every day how to navigate that. [00:02:00]

Tanya: And still she persisted.

Claire: My daily motto. My daily motto.

Tanya: Four and two. You're busy.

Claire: Very busy. And you know, it's like, as we'll later talk about, you know, writing a book and publicizing a book and promoting a book is a full time job on top of writing other books.

Tanya: So what has the response been like since you launched your book and has anything surprised you?

Claire: The response has been fantastic. It has been a lot of work, and I know that sounds obvious, but what really surprised me was I had a very extensive network prior to releasing the book and I had a very supportive network. So what I learned very quickly is that you need a group outside of your network in order to really sell a lot of books and in order to be successful. I think I was operating under the assumption that I would be [00:03:00] able to fly by on my own network for pretty much a majority of my sales and whatnot. And I learned quickly that if you want to sell a lot of books, like I said, it needs to be outside of that network.

Tanya: Yeah. And to that point, I think that's one of the things that you've done exceptionally well. When I look at how our authors promote their books, it’s kind of meeting the readers where they are and specifically online. So can you talk a bit about the websites that you use to do that?

Claire: I primarily leaned heavily on social media. So whether that's Facebook or Instagram or Tik Tok and now threads and even Twitter, there's different audiences for each platform. And as a result, one thing that I learned over these past six to seven months is you really need to speak to each of those audiences very differently. Content that you might make in order to promote your book, you can't just kind of like spray it out there and hope that it will stick. You really need to be pretty precise about how you want to speak to people who are on TikTok because it'll be an entirely different [00:04:00] demographic than a group of people who are on a Facebook group.

So that has been a majority of my focus, because that in itself is so time consuming. You know, when you're trying to cater your message to these different groups and these different social media platforms, it's very time consuming, and you really need to focus your energy on what you're doing, channels that are effective.

But when it comes to connecting with other authors, which has been a really important part of this networking process, so other debut thriller authors, whether, you know, whether they're self published or published through traditional publishers, I have really focused on websites and podcasts that are thriller specific, since I write a thriller.

Tanya: And do you think that some of those channels are more appropriate for fiction, let's say, versus nonfiction?

Claire: I definitely do, but I think social media is so broad now, you can find anybody, really. It's just a matter of making sure you are speaking to the people who will be interested in either your fiction book or your nonfiction book.

I will say, [00:05:00] I've only really heard, and you would obviously know about this much more than I would, that anecdotally, it's important to have a presence if you're a nonfiction author on social media, iin comparison to some fiction authors who don't have to have as large of a presence.

Tanya: Let's talk about Substack. We've never actually talked about Substack on this podcast, so I'm super excited about this because I think a lot of people maybe have heard the word and don't really know what it is at all. So maybe start by telling us what the heck is Substack and then how did you use it?

Claire: Sure. Substack is essentially like an online newsletter platform and it's very easy to use. I started my Substack, which is called Rising Talent and it is oriented toward debut authors. And I really try to focus on the content of my newsletter. Lessons that I wish I would have known prior to releasing my debut novel, because it is a pretty steep learning curve and there was so much that I [00:06:00] didn't know prior to the book coming out.

I started this back in January and there were a few reasons that I started it. One was because I noticed that there is an important element when you're trying to promote the book, about reciprocity. So, you know, when you want Booktokers or people who are on Booktok who talk about and review books, or people on Instagram who review books and read lots of books, if you want them to consider your book, you can kind of offer them something with this, now, newsletter that I have to help them build their following of authors and get the word out there about their platform that they're also trying to build.

I've been doing that by trying to help both authors and help the book reviewers by profiling them. Talking a little bit about the Instagram-slash-Bookstagram space by featuring a Bookstagrammer. I'm going to be talking about how I've navigated and used BookTok and TikTok by [00:07:00] featuring BookTokers. And so by doing that I'm helping them, but I'm also helping other authors learn how to navigate this space because it can be so overwhelming, especially when there are so many of these different social media platforms to navigate, and a lot of us either don't have the time, we don't have the content, or we just don't even really know how to use them.

Tanya: For fiction, that is particularly true, right? Like nonfiction authors have the luxury of kind of repurposing some of that core content in the book and just kind of chunking it out there. You guys have to sort of reinvent the wheel every time you sit down at the writing table.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The core of what I talk about in the Substack in various degrees each or every other week, whenever the Substack is published, is how important networking is throughout this whole process. And that's something that I carried over from my last career being in advertising and sales for so [00:08:00] long is building relationships is a really critical part of promoting your book.

That's something you can do before the book comes out. And that was something that I also really struggled with prior to the release of my book and as somebody who's very type A and likes to be really involved, it's like, what can I do? What can I do? Okay, I need to be on TikTok. I need to be creating all this content. But honestly, just leveraging the platforms in order to meet the actual book reviewers and see their content and see what people are reading is just as critical as making your own content. That's definitely something that I am trying to talk about all the time so that new authors understand the importance of that.

Tanya: Yeah, it takes a little pressure off of them too. I like that.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. It helps to have your own content talking about the book, but I've also noticed the more Booktokers and Bookstagrammers and book reviewers who I meet on social media, there's a boundary that they like to keep [00:09:00] with authors, because while they, of course, love interacting with them, but they also have a commitment to their own audiences about reviewing books fairly. And so constantly reaching out and asking people to review and talk about your work isn't necessarily as effective based on what I have found.

Tanya: And going back to Substack specifically for people who are listening and curious and thinking about pursuing that as a channel, any best practices to share how they can go about getting started?

Claire: Be very realistic with your time and understanding that if you are going to take this on, it is yet another time commitment along with everything else you have to do to write other books or promote and market your own book.

For example, when I started with my Substack, I tried to release a new one and send it out to readers and subscribers every week. And that just was too much. It was too much on top of [00:10:00] the very busy life that I was leading and I found that I was able to be a lot more thoughtful with the content that I was coming up with when I did it every month instead. And so I think that that is my biggest takeaway is make sure it's a good use of your time.

I've also approached Substack as not another way to really build my own followers and fans, although you can use it for that. I really focused on how can I help other authors. And so it took a lot of the pressure off of me to be like, Oh, I need to build an audience. I need to build an audience with this. It's more about, how can I help other people? How can I kind of return all that I've learned? And at the same time, you know, hopefully get a new audience over the long run.

Tanya: BookTok talk, of course, is I think for fiction authors, an especially increasingly hot place to discover authors and get buzz going. So can you talk a bit for the unfamiliar of what that is and then how [00:11:00] you've used it?

Claire: Yes, of course. So TikTok is, as we know, a very big social media platform, especially among some of the younger generation. I'm a millennial, but Gen Z loves their TikTok, and they use it for almost everything. I've heard now that they actually use it moreso than they use Google. So I do think, it's been an important place to get the word out there about the book. And to take a step further, there is a specific group on TikTok called BookTok, and essentially all of their content is devoted to talking about books and reading books and connecting with readers.

And a lot of the younger generation has gone to BookTok to figure out what books to read, especially among specific genres. And so there's very big BookTokers now that are extremely influential and they can really shift the tide of your book's visibility. There's been some [00:12:00] authors that have essentially made their career off of BookTok at this point. I would say Colleen Hoover was one of those that was really discovered within BookTok and blew up as a result of it when she'd already had, you know, a huge number of books that had already been published. How I approached it originally was to try to reach out to as many BookTalkers as I can and try to get my book into their hands.

And I have found, and this is all based on my own personal experience and it might be different. Based on the genre that you're writing, I have found that Booktok and the people on TikTok and they are much more receptive to new authors and authors pitching them about certain books than people who are on Instagram content creators who we call Bookstagrammers who talk about books on Instagram that are a lot more closed off about like pitches. I haven't gotten as much response and traction when I pitched books Bookstagrammers as opposed to Booktokers.

Originally I approached Booktok that way and then I started realizing [00:13:00] that I should be using Booktok as a way to really study the market. Following Booktokers, understanding what tropes they loved, understanding their pet peeves. Understanding different comps of books that are similar to mine, engaging with their content, commenting on their videos, reposting their videos, sharing their videos. And that's something that you can do as an author regardless of your genre, way before your book comes out. That way, they actually really recognize you, the people who are creating the videos and the content, and they're more willing to support you because you've been supporting them and their platform for a long period of time.

Another important element to BookTok is that the virality of it is very unpredictable, right? Like, you know, the algorithm, you can't really understand what's going to do well, what's not. So engage with BookTok accounts, even if they look like they have a small follower list, because I've seen small BookTok accounts blow up very quickly.

In a [00:14:00] nutshell, that's really how I've been approaching it now: Finding reviewers, engaging with their content, liking it, and then down the road, they're much more inclined and interested in your story, and pitching your book, and talking about your book, and showing your book to their audiences. That's been really, really effective.

Tanya: Awesome. Thank you so much for that. That was a very complete answer.

Claire: Sorry, I rambled on.

Tanya: No, I love it.

Claire: And going back to the Substack, Tanya, I did feature some Booktokers, and that was one of my most popular newsletters for authors who were really struggling with, you know, TikTok is so overwhelming to me, I don't even know where to start. By featuring a few BookTokers and talking about their experience and how they use the platform and how they talk about books, I think it humanized it a lot for other authors. And that was something that I hope to do more often, is profile more book reviewers and more BookTokers and whatnot.

Tanya: Humanizing it. After all, we are all humans and relate to [00:15:00] that sort of interpersonal connection. I think that's really important to remember on social media.

Claire: Exactly.

Tanya: You've given us so much great insight on BookTok. And in general, it sounds like you've got a really firm grasp on social media as an author. So how do authors stand out on social media? It's so intimidating, I think, for people who haven't started. And I think often we just shut down when we're faced with something like that, but you've done such a great job, and maybe you can share a little bit of the how.

Claire: Yeah, that's a great question. And honestly, it's one I'm still figuring out too. You know, I don't think that there is a perfect formula to it. Ultimately what's most important is leaning into the social media platform that you do feel most comfortable on. I know I've talked a lot about sprinkling throughout all the different ones, but that's not something that's intimidating to me personally. If it's intimidating to you as an author, starting on one and really diving [00:16:00] in is definitely the way to go, and then branching out as you feel more and more comfortable.

But it's kind of an art to be completely honest, and it's one that just takes a lot of time to figure out. In the six to seven months since I've released my book back in October, I've just continued to kind of learn and refine how I talk about my book to those different audiences. Just know that you don't have to go out, like I said before, and create all of this unique content, because to a lot of people, that's what's so intimidating. They don't know what to talk about, they don't want to post themselves, they don't want to record themselves, and from first hand experience, I can attest to the fact that, like, it's really hard. It's way harder than you'd think.

Make sure you know how to talk about your book in different ways, and to different people and you focus on what people are looking for on those different social media platforms if you want to branch out. There might be some people who love a certain trope or who love certain themes and [00:17:00] genres, so just figuring out how to speak to them and use the comps of books that they like to kind of entice them to read yours is something that's more important, I think, than creating all of this original new flashy content that's really hard.

Tanya: Yeah. And it sounds like for fiction authors, especially getting into the craft is important on social media, right? Like talking about, I think there's so many aspiring authors who are also readers, that that's a really important way for fiction writers to think about engaging with an audience online.

Claire: Totally. I totally agree. And I think the reason why I did have such a strong network and, you know, a strong group of people who were invested in the book's success right out of the gate was because I've been talking about this process and the publication process for so long, and I really tried to bring people along on that journey with me.

So, talking about the editing, talking about like the cover design, and then now that I'm writing the second book in the series [00:18:00] talking about the characters and the evolution, the arc of the characters. I've had so many people who have reached out to me and talked about, they had no idea how much the process entailed and, you know, education that kind of comes with it.

Tanya: With social media, I think one of the trickiest things is, you can build the followers, you can have the audience, but some people may say, why does it matter if it doesn't convert to book sales? And as you know, with your ad sales background especially, it's all about converting. So how do we convert our online audience into buyer?

Claire: It's not an immediate conversion. There's so much noise that you're competing with now outside of just book sales. You're competing with entertainment, whether it be TV shows or movies, you're competing with podcasts, you're competing with other books, you're competing with social media. Consumers are very selective about how they want to spend their time and they're very deliberate about how they want to spend [00:19:00] their time. In order to do that, you really kind of have to, share a little bit more about what you stand for as an author, and a little bit more about the process and what it meant to you, and so they can become a little bit more invested with people who follow you. Even just having a place for fans, if they read your book, and they love your book, to come to in order to learn a little bit more about yourself.

While certain content might not translate immediately to immediate book sales, I would say over time it's been extremely influential in getting the word out there about my book. And a prime example of that is like I have very organically appeared in or joined 10 to 15 different book clubs of people who selected my book as their book club pick, and I joined to come talk about the book and talk about the process. And that happened by word of mouth. That happened by me sharing on social media. That happened by other people sharing on social media, and that's how it happens.

The life cycle of a person reading a book is a lot longer than [00:20:00] someone binging a Netflix show. And that's because with people's life and people's attention span, some people find it really hard at the end of the night to like sit down after a long day and read a book. Some people love that, and there's of course a group of readers that that's what all they do. But then there's a lot of people, and I would say that the normal everyday person based on my personal experience and conversations, people that really struggle with it. So, even if you have someone buy it, you need to wait for a person to read about it and to read it and talk it, about it. I've noticed like there's big bumps when that happens, like around the holidays or around spring break because people actually have a chunk of time, of uninterrupted time to read your book. And so patience is a big part of this.

Patience, consistency, and persistence, and just showing up and doing it. You're not going to get it right. You're going to take a long time to figure it out. I'm still figuring it out, but it's really important to just consistently do it.

Tanya: Trust the process.

Claire: Trust the process. Yeah. And, you know, like this month alone, for example, I'm [00:21:00] recording this podcast with you, I have a big book event with my audio book narrator. I have a TV segment that I booked. There's just things that kind of continue to evolve as more people do end up talking about your book and reading it and sharing it with others. But it takes a lot of time and that social media conduit is what allows that to happen, but it's not going to happen overnight. And it's not just going to mean like, cause you have 500 followers, you're gonna have 500 book sales, you know?

Tanya: I often tell people when you sell a book, you're not asking somebody for 20 dollars. You're asking them for two weeks of their life.

Claire: That is so true. Yes. I'm going to use that. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I do think your team was very honest and forthright about that with me. Because you have a thousand Instagram followers doesn't mean you're gonna have a thousand book sales. You can hear that, but it takes almost experiencing it firsthand to realize like, oh, [00:22:00] they know what they're talking about. They were right.

Tanya: Well, thanks.

Claire: Duh!

Tanya: So now that you are knee deep into this as a writer and working on the subsequent book, what do you wish you'd known sooner? And what are you doing differently now?

Claire: I think I wish I would have known and gone into this process with the mentality that... I'm laughing. That it doesn't end. This part and phase of the process is very hard, and it's way harder than I anticipated. As an author, I think you go through the different stages of like, writing the book is the hardest part, then trying to get it published is the hardest part. And now that I'm in the process of trying to sell the book, I'm like, no, this is the hardest part.

And so, really approaching it with that mentality of, you are going to [00:23:00] constantly and endlessly be promoting and talking about your book. I actually spoke with a few other Greenleaf authors prior to publishing mine and they said the same thing, but I don't think it can really click and you can really understand it again until you're going through it firsthand.

Trying to now balance the commitments of promoting and marketing the book with writing the second one has been really hard for me. Once the book is out there, it's out there and that's a job. You know, that's like one of your full time jobs on top of writing. So. write as much as you can while you can prior to any book being published. That's what I wish I would have really taken to heart.

Tanya: Do you think anyone's going to write a book after listening to us today?

Claire: Was I not positive enough?

Tanya: I'm kidding! No, you're right. That is exactly what we tell authors, and sometimes people say, Um, gosh, Tanya, it sounds like you're trying to talk them out of it. I'm not trying to talk people out of it. I just want them to know what they're getting into. You shouldn't [00:24:00] underestimate the amount of time that goes into you really being strategic and thoughtful about not just writing the book, but of course, launching it.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. And I would say that's probably what separates the authors who sell a smaller number of books to the authors that sell more than a thousand books. That's gonna be the difference that separates. It's kind of that persistence and consistency and just, you know. You gotta keep putting yourself out there, and that takes practice and sometimes it feels like you're talking into a endless void and not getting anything back, but you really just have to trust that like it will lead to different opportunities and that it's really important and it gets easier. It really does get so much easier to put yourself out there. The more podcasts you do, the more you talk about your book, the more events you show up to. Um, you kind of really get your own style. This is your job and like that's such an exciting, that's such an exciting [00:25:00] opportunity. So I love that aspect and I've loved connecting with readers that way.

Tanya: I love that. That's well said. And it is a journey for everybody. I mean, my book came out in 2018 and it was a journey for me too, and I run a publishing company! I made mistakes and I learned along the way and, and the book is still a very useful tool for me. I've just kind of figured out the best use of that journey for me. That's an important thing for authors too, you know, you have to find your own path and what works for you may not be the same thing that Claire is talking about today, or that someone else that you've read about somewhere else, you don't have to pressure yourself to do everything another author is doing. Just experiment and find what works for you.

Claire: Exactly, exactly. It's all an evolution. And you know, we're all at the whim of the algorithms of all of these different platforms too. Figuring out what works and what doesn't work is just a constant, like I said before, art, you know?

Tanya: Absolutely. Well, you've been so generous with your time and your [00:26:00] wisdom today. Any other parting advice for our listeners?

Claire: I would just say, I would just say that I'm really proud of myself. It takes a lot to even say that and kind of admit that, but, yeah. Just continuing to show up and continuing to do this and there's not very many other people in my circle and in anybody's circle who is also doing the same thing and really putting themselves out there and trying to publish a book and get those words out there for the world to experience.

Find other like minded people or people who are going through the same process, other authors, because they'll be such an important support system and safety net when you just want to give up and quit. And that's been one of my favorite parts of this whole process, is meeting other thriller debut authors, and they've become already good friends of mine, you know, and their success is your success. So that's another important lesson that [00:27:00] I've learned, is that there's enough success in everybody's book sales to go around.

Tanya: I love that. Yes. Authors do deserve a degree of reverence.

Claire: They really do. They really, really do. There's so much work that goes into it for so little money. I've really looked at this launch of my debut novel as kind of like a launch pad for my author career. There's going to be so much more to come and this is the start of it. So I'm really optimistic and excited and hopeful.

Tanya: As are we, and we're proud of you too, Claire. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank

Claire: Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Tanya: That's it for our episode today with Claire. We hope you enjoyed learning about her author journey.

For notes and resources from today's show, go to greenleafbookgroup.com/episode86. You can also find advice for writing, publishing, and promoting your work in my book, Ideas, Influence, and Income, which you can learn more about at ideasinfluenceandincome.com. [00:28:00]

A big thank you to Madison Johnson, who produces the Published podcast, and to our five star reviewers. Thank you for your support. And we will be back with another episode on the last Tuesday of next month.

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Claire Isenthal graduated from Purdue University and went on to live in Chicago where she worked in Digital Marketing and Ad Sales for over ten years. She has since relocated her family back to her Indiana hometown, but is still an avid traveler and loves nothing more than to lose herself in a good book. Claire is an International Thriller Writers (ITW) member and just released her weekly Substack for new authors — Rising Talent, Earning Your Space in the Publishing Industry.

The Rising Order is her first novel.