In 2023, we interviewed over a dozen publishing industry experts for their insights on investing in the production of a book, self-promotion through interviews, podcasting, and social media, and distribution into bookstores and libraries. As we look forward to another year of the Published podcast, we’re returning to some of the best publishing advice of the year.

Episode 73: Tap into BookTok and Bookstagram with Book Influencer Danielle Green

Tanya: For people who are new to it and maybe thinking I don't want to tackle another social media platform, how do you, for lack of a better term, break into TikTok? And how do you engage specifically within the BookTok community effectively?

Danielle: Yeah, for sure. That's a great question. Obviously, social media can be very overwhelming, especially since it seems like there's a new platform that pops up every few years. And it feels like you have to continue to keep up to date with everything.

What I tell my authors is a few key steps to start out with, obviously, setting up your page is very important. And you can keep it simple, make sure your profile picture is a picture of you. I've seen some authors will have their profile picture of the book cover. Again, I recommend keeping it to your headshot if you have one. So, whatever you use as your headshot on the back of your book, keep that. It makes it very cohesive and easy to find.

For content viewers and other readers that are trying to find you, keep your bio super short. I believe TikTok actually requires that, they don't let you write your giant, long bio that's going to be in the back of your book. So simple thing about who you are, what you write, and anything kind of personal that you want to add. I would also suggest creating, just to get you started, one video. I would suggest no longer than 15 to 30 seconds of just explaining who you are, what you've written, if you have a physical copy of your book already you can even show your book and kind of why you wrote it. And this gives any viewers that are on your page, they can at least have something to go off to understand who you are and why you're on TikTok, and your goals.

So, once you've done that, just setting up the basics for your page, the biggest part of it is research and scrolling. I'll recommend if you type in BookTok into the search bar in TikTok, that hashtag alone has over 122 billion views. So, there are a lot of videos and so much content for everybody to go through. And I would suggest for authors just to start scrolling to get themselves acclimated, seeing what's trending right now. And what does trending mean, what's popular right now, what sounds and music? If you see a sound or a clip of music that's being repeated over and over again, that's going to be trending. If people are just setting up their camera and talking, what are they talking about? Are they doing book hauls? Are they doing more book reviews? Are they talking about their favorite books?

Once an author feels more acclimated with BookTok as a whole, and they kind of understand what kind of content is really happening in that community, then you can start to be more specific and focused in your search.

*****

Episode 78: Create and Monetize a Podcast Based on Your Book with Doug Sandler

Doug: So as a promotional tool, podcasting was a great way to not only meet potential people that could bring me in to speak to their organizations, but people that might be interested in buying bulk amounts of my book, building relationships with people that I never would have had an opportunity to meet. If I just picked up the phone and call and said, "Hey, would you be open to buying 100 of my books, for your organization?" It's so much easier to have them sit in the guest's seat and share a story or two and their message with my audience. So it's a win for them as the company, and a win for me, because now I've met this person that I never would have actually had an opportunity to meet before. In addition to that, the community out there that's listening to the show — they're also interested in the content and the book as well. So it was a great starting point for me to really start the promotion of my book.

Tanya: Yeah, that's a good point, that it kind of opens up this dialog and helps you create a relationship that's absent many times when you are trying to get those big bulk sales, which every author's always chasing. And they come to us and say, "Hey, how do I secure bulk sales?" And we hate to break their hearts, but we always turn it around and say... it's really about your relationships. You can't just knock on someone's door and say, how about 500 books?

Doug: Well, right and you know, if you think about it, your audience will be interested in the onesie-twosies, so you'll be able to sell a book or two to them as you are bringing your content. The guests sitting in the guest's seat or the person that's listening. It's running an organization, they're the perfect opportunity for you to put your book into the dozens or hundreds and sometimes thousands of books to a single organization that might really relate to your message, and you have an opportunity to build a relationship with that audience member that's coming back week in and week out to listen to your content. They fall in love with you as the host, and it's a natural moving point to the next thing is, Okay, well, how can I get closer to this guy that's hosting this show? And the easiest way to do that is just to connect with the host, find out how the relationship can get better, or what more can I do for engagement with that audience member, and put books in their hands, which really was the main purpose of the podcast.

All of the other stuff that came with it, which was consulting and speaking opportunities, and all of those other things, they fell into place, too.

Tanya: How do they go about researching the influencers that we're talking about, and possibly pitching them for some sort of collaboration?

Danielle: After a while, you will start seeing content creators who specialize in particular genres. So, there's nonfiction, there's romance, there's thriller, and there's even thriller versus horror, there's fantasy. And you'll be able to find lots of different content creators who tend to specifically talk about that one genre. Once you found a few, start following them, comment on their videos, or even just start liking them and let them know that you're there.

Someone with a good robust following is somebody that has 10,000 followers or more. And I would say that both on TikTok and Instagram. When it comes to traction start looking for influencers with that, not to say influencers that have less than that number of followers won't be useful as well. Also, who's really engaged with their followers? TikTok makes it very easy. If you go in the comment section, it'll say in bright pink or bright red if the creator has liked or commented on a comment on their video, so just see how engaged they are. That will give you a good idea of how responsive they might be.

Regarding pitching yourself as an author, once you've started following them, and engaging with them a little bit in their comment section, then reach out to them. And you can do this through either DMing them or direct messaging them on the app or emailing them. A lot of influencers, myself included, have our emails attached to our profiles, and you'll be able to see that both on TikTok and Instagram. Just start reaching out to them and saying that you would love to send them a copy of your book. It could be an eBook or a physical book; usually, influencers are flexible about what format they want to receive it in. Kindle is obviously popular nowadays. And you know, you won't get a response from every single person, but you might get one or two or three at first.

It would be my advice to just pitch them and say, I would love to send you a copy of my novel, I'd love for you to read it. And then that's it. No expectations, especially if it's just you reaching out. What you might start to run into if you start asking them, can you please leave a review for it, can you please post about this, is that some influencers, depending on how big of a following they have, actually get paid per review. And so, it just depends on your budget as well. If you have the budget and you'd like to pay them for that, then that's your own prerogative, but at least offer to send them a copy of your book.

*****

Episode 72: Media Training 101 with Kayleigh Lovvorn

Tanya: There's lots of different ways for an author to get coverage. What kind of media interviews should they be seeking?

Kayleigh: I would suggest looking at what audiences align with your content first. So, if you are writing in more of a long form style, if this is very business centered, or scientific centered, you're going to want to look more in the field of journals, or long form interviews that will really get in depth on your subject matter.

And get audiences involved with what you're doing as well. If you're a little bit on the lighter side, or maybe you provide advice or counseling to people, you're going to go where your audience is and look for shows that are question and answer with experts in that area. Any way that you can provide your expertise, for a show, that's where you want to look.

Tanya: With so many outlets out there and lots of different opportunities between press, and radio, and podcast, how does an author evaluate the worthiness, if you will, of an outlet, given that time is precious, and they want to be careful about how many and where they schedule their interviews? And are there also red flags that they should be looking for as they evaluate these media opportunities?

Kayleigh: Absolutely. It is even more important to look for green and red flags in this environment with such a decentralization of media happening. It isn't just a hey, if you're an author, go to this one show, they'll highlight your book like Oprah's book club, that isn't what it was as much anymore. It's still fantastic, but it just doesn't have the sheer reach that it did.

Looking for shows that are focused on the content of your book and your expertise is key. Finding quality shows means looking for shows with high numbers of audience engagement. And you can find indicators of that by looking through a platform or an outlet's social media channels. Their number of followers is a great indication but an even better one is their engagement with their audience. So, comments going back and forth between the platform and their audience in a positive discussion, how quickly you're seeing followers jump onto new content, that is all a fantastic thing to see.

Red flags when it comes to media outlets, an outlet or a show that does not follow regular posting schedule. If they don't have a singular or main office for a contact of who to reach out to with that, if it's very scattered. And if they don't have a social media presence, that means they're not engaging with their audience, they're not promoting their episodes, or you when you would be on that show as well. So those are just things to be hesitant of when you were looking at evaluating outlets.

Tanya: Those are great tips. And I will add, I think, maybe jumping the gun here, but it's really helpful to actually listen to their show if you haven't, because I've been caught red handed that way where I went on a podcast, and I hadn't listened all the way through one of this person's podcasts before. And at the end, there was a lightning round. And had I listened to all the way through to one of his podcasts, I would have been fine.

*****

Episode 75: Ghostwriter, Book Coach, or Editor?

Tanya: Book editors, book coaches, ghostwriters… Can you walk us through the difference between those roles?

Kevin: Typically, when we use word “editor” we're referring to when someone comes to the manuscript that's already essentially completed, or pretty far along, and the editor is going through and making manual changes to the manuscript, giving some advice and feedback on how to elevate the writing, or even looking at the bigger picture issues with the manuscript. But they're usually working with something that's already written.

The book coach is coming in, usually, before anything's written, although they might come in with a manuscript that just has some issues and they want to maybe start over or they want to start with some existing material. But regardless, a lot of times, the book coaches aren't even touching the manuscript at all. They're just reviewing and giving feedback, and collaborating with the author, back and forth, guiding them through the whole process, but the author is the one who's actually making the changes to the manuscript.

A ghostwriter is someone who is writing the manuscript, they're still working in close collaboration with the author, of course, but they're actually putting the pen to paper or fingers to keys. And often they're really coming up with their own ideas, etc, as well about the book to try to help the author bring it all together and create a great book.

And in our team, we're often working together, often we’ll have an editor that's working with the author, as well as the ghostwriter and working on everything as a team. So we're kind of collaborating and figuring out the bigger picture together, the ghostwriter’s writing the book, the editor’s editing it as we go along, and they're all working together to come up with a final product.

Tanya: And I think a lot of authors are sort of prone to locking themselves in a room and working in a silo really, and not letting anybody see it until they feel like it's good enough to show. What would you say is the benefit to bringing in an expert versus going in alone?

Kevin: One thing to know is that every single book that's been published, maybe save for a few that I've never heard of, have had multiple people working on that book. I mean, no author is writing and publishing their book alone. So it's very common — In fact, it's the way that books are written, that they are edited. So they are getting professional help by somebody else to help fine tune it, to help correct the grammar errors or repetition in the material, whatever it is. There's no book out there that isn't getting professional help. Authors shouldn't have an ego involved. I mean, Shakespeare had an editor! So this is just a common part of writing a book. It's never done in isolation.

You don't necessarily need to have someone come in and start to do some of the grind work right away, but just having that conversation: what are your publishing goals, what kind of book you want to write, what are some of the ideas you have and how do those themes hang together? What’s your platform, what kind of publishing options are gonna be viable for you? Does that change the kind of book that you want to write?

All of these questions, you can really get a lot of answers to early on by talking to a professional. And then you can kind of go off and do what you need to do. But at least you have that confidence that you're going in the right direction, and you're not going to make some potentially costly mistakes, where you'll have to go back and do a lot of rewrites, or maybe, you should have been doing something earlier on. There's a million different things that just having even an hour conversation with a professional will really help to put you in the right direction and save you from a lot of costs and wasted time.

Obviously, another reason why someone might choose to work with a professional is that they just don't have the ability or time. There are so many people that have incredible messages to share, incredible life stories, but they don't have the technical skills to write a manuscript. But it's still a valuable message, something that still needs to get out there. So if they don't have that writing ability, hiring a professional helps to bridge that gap.

Tanya: Good points, and I would add that it makes for a more efficient process for sure, you touched upon that. Some people, when they actually sit down and start to work on the book, they start to resent how much work it is and develop a dislike for the writing itself, which is a shame. So at that point, I would definitely hope that somebody would get the help from a professional to finish it versus sticking it in a drawer and saying that experience is not for me.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. It's very motivating to have someone working with you, because then you're responsible to somebody else, you’re accountable to them. And a lot of times their ideas and their edits, them getting excited gets you excited. It greatly elevates the chances that you're going to actually finish the book.

Tanya: Can you give us an idea, ballpark, of what these different professional services cost?

Kevin: You know, you really get what you pay for. You can buy a Toyota Camry, or you can buy a Bentley. And you're gonna get back a lot of what that investment is, but it depends on what's really right for you. A lot of people are perfectly fine with the Toyota Camry and it does everything they need it to. It really depends on what your publishing goals are.

But just to give general ranges, if you're looking at somebody who has hit the bestseller list, maybe they've done a couple New York Times #1 bestsellers — let's categorize this as ghostwriting first. So, a ghostwriter that's done some notable titles with traditional publishers and name brand authors, it’s very common to be in the hundreds of thousands to hire that writer. And if you're J.R. Moehringer, you'd be looking at a million plus — he only takes on certain clients, he did The Spare, the Prince Harry book. It's not uncommon for these really elite gross writers to be in the hundreds of thousands. Our top packages are all in the hundreds of thousands, anywhere from $150,000 to $300,000 for a book. Usually that's a pretty comprehensive package that includes a lot: includes writing a book proposal, includes beta reader testing, we do a lot of different things within that package. But even with an individual freelancer, you'll see those kinds of prices with a very high-end writer.

Now, a lot of ghostwriters are in more of the $20,000 to $70,000 range. That's a very common range. As you scale up, typically, you're gonna see more more notable titles, more titles that have hit bestseller lists. Those writers are higher in demand, so you're gonna pay more for those. You can get perfectly great writers at the $15,000 to $20,000 range and even below that sometimes, but it's unusual to get an experienced ghostwriter that's going to be willing to do it for less than $15,000. That would probably be at your bottom.

With book coaching, it really depends what you're getting from that coaching. Take a look at the whatever the scope is: How many hours are you actually getting of interactive time, how many rounds of back and forth are you getting? Because no book coach can work forever, so there's going to be limits to the scope. And it's just gonna be fair to both parties if the scope is pretty clearly defined. If it includes unlimited revisions and unlimited reviews and unlimited phone time, then the price is going to go up to account for that.

Typically, you will save a little bit of money going to a freelance option, where you're just working with one person, as opposed to a company or firm. But there's also a lot of benefits to working with a company or firm. A company or firm, if anything goes wrong with that writer relationship, a good firm should replace that writer free of charge. The firm is the one that's responsible to finish that manuscript, not one single part of that process in the writer is one of those parts of the process. Same with editorial. With a firm, you do have more assurances, you have a team. You do pay more for those assurances, and for that kind of bigger think tank, and usually firms are doing more for you, too, in terms of the start and finish of the project. But it does come at a price.

Tanya: Sure. You get what you pay for.

*****

Episode 71: Publishing Consultants Answer: How Much Should I Invest in My Book?

Tanya: What types of publishing contracts require an investment and in what areas?

Justin Branch: You know, it's rare for traditional publishers to offer much marketing support these days, if any at all. That cost is typically shouldered by the author, and they should just be aware of that going into it. It's also likely that they've incurred costs along the way editorially, to get to that draft of the manuscript.

On the other side of the spectrum, there's self-publishing, where you're going to be covering 100% of the cost, the editing, design, packaging, distribution, marketing, and you're going to be acting as your own general contractor is going to be assembling that team of designers and editors and distributors and marketers.

In the middle would be a hybrid publisher and you're still going to be investing in services like you would with self-publishing. But in exchange for that you're getting the expertise and guidance that you would expect from a traditional publisher, as well as higher royalties on the back end.

So regardless of path, you should plan on investing in your book, it really just comes down to determining which option is right to use. You can be strategic with the plan and with your budget.

David Endures: If an author does go, for example, the traditional route, marketing is typically an area where an author still needs to invest, whether it's in some of the more important book specific marketing initiatives, or if it's platform development, we're building one's brand, or some of the more traditional PR types of marketing initiatives.

And you know, this kind of investing is going to be really critical for the sake of any book's visibility, discoverability, searchability, among the ocean of other books that are out there. There's a lot of noise that authors nowadays and for the last couple of decades, quite frankly, that they need to cut through to have their book be able to be found by people who should be finding their book.

But with non-traditional or the self-publishing route, however, it usually comes down to an investment in a lot of other aspects, like the other consultants have already touched on, whether it's editorial, production, distribution, possibly printing costs, but also that marketing as well. And once the book is out there, it's out there forever. So, an author really just gets one shot to do it right out of the gate. And editorial is probably one of the most important parts where there's no such thing as working with a good, experienced editor too soon, because this can likely make the difference between a good book and a great book.

Tanya: And I suppose people who are listening are thinking like, give it to me in dollars and cents. What types of ranges are we talking about here?

Justin: It's almost like pricing a house in the sense that, at the end of the day, it all kind of depends. And the goal is obviously to make sure that every dollar goes towards the things that matter most. So, with the book, there's only so many things you can control. You do want to make sure that the things you can control are best in class. And that way, when you face those things are outside of your control, you’re in the best position to be successful.

If you're self-publishing, you might be able to get away with a budget of under $10,000, which for some books, that's going to be perfect. But just keep in mind, like anything, you tend to kind of get what you pay for. So, make sure that your expectations are in line with what the probable outcome will be on that side of things.

Reputable hybrid publishers, typically, you're going to start at $25,000, and go up from there. If you go the traditional route, you need to still of course, be thinking about working with a PR firm. In typical PR firm engagements that have retainer types of models, so three to six months, at a monthly rate of anywhere between $3,000 and $10,000.

There are scalable areas of this entire process. Editorial should always really depend on the length and condition of the manuscript and at what point you're engaging with the editor. The first round of book sales often come down to great marketing, distribution, and cover design. But longevity comes down to great content and ultimately, your reader becoming your salesperson. Investing a good editor, to kind of piggyback on David's point, is really important and really critical.

On the other side, when it comes to scalable things, the marketing is really scalable. I'm talking about marketing, platform building, digital media outreach. You want the partners you're working with to first be able to narrow down from all the things you can do to the things that you should do. What have they seen to be most impactful? What moves the needle? What's the right mixture between those items to give you the most push out of the gate? And then from there the things you should do, you can kind of work with them to narrow down to what makes the most sense for your budget. And this is going to get you where you want to go but at the right price.

Tanya: Yeah, excellent points. And I wanted to add something here. I think as people are hearing us talk about money, money, money. It's certainly not to diminish the art of the book itself and the fact that you're creating this thing that is hopefully going to live in perpetuity as a passion project. And I think sometimes that is what can get an author in trouble. There's this magical thinking, right, I've created this beautiful work of art and the universe is going to take care of this beautiful thing, but we have to kind of put on our business hats and think about it as a product, it is a product.

And I think I've seen authors in the past where once I can get them to that shift, where it's a product, and we're going to start thinking about a product launch, which requires areas of investment and strategic thinking, and some business decisions along the way, then this whole conversation about investing feels a lot more normal, if you will, or feels like there's a more proper place for it. So, I just wanted to throw that in there in case anybody is listening to this going, why are we talking about investing? I'm writing a book. It is a product if we're taking it to market.

*****

Episode 77: Barnes & Noble Buyer Cal Hunter Shares How to Get Bookstores to Stock Your BooK

Tanya: So, I think the burning question that every author or aspiring author has is: How do you decide on which books you bring into the store? And I know there have been some changes in Barnes & Noble in the past years. Can you help our listeners understand, are those decisions made at the store level or does corporate have a say — just fill us in on that?

Cal: Well, at one time, it was purely corporate-driven. You had buyers that were buying nationwide for the stores. Under new corporate leadership, it now allows local stores to take more of a local approach towards what's important, what's the demand from each store. It's very difficult from a corporate level to take a one-size-fits-all when you're looking at a chain of stores so wide, so deep across the country. So store managers now have a lot of latitude, and it's about knowing your marketplace. Many authors will publish a book, and then they will walk that into their local store and see if the store will pick it up. One thing that really helps, you know, I think people have to understand that bookstores are no different than any other industry. In the music business, it would be rotation and airtime. In the supermarket, it's called slotting. How do you get best positioning in a store? Well, it all boils down to one thing: the sale, the demand. What's happening within that local community that's demanding that book? So the author can really generate that demand when they talk about igniting their following, and that's what typically opens that door in a big way.

And authors have a lot of power when they walk into a store. I tell anyone, what is the primary function of a bookstore? It’s to have good books. Authors can walk into that store and say, you know, “I want to see my book, I'd like to sign my book.” And then after they signed it, you want to say to the bookseller, “Instead of placing me library-spine, can you face me out? I want people to see me.” So, get a little more detailed in the handling of your products.

Tanya: Oh, that’s a great tip. So that's an ask that they have to get into the habit of making if they happen to be interacting with a bookseller, is “please face out my book.”

Cal: That's right. And don't accept a bookstore telling you that we don't have your book in stock. Say, “Well, I'll come back. I want you to order it, and I’ll come back.” Again, bookstores exist because of authors, and you have the right to be demanding that you want your book on that shelf and you it managed properly. You have to really convey to that bookstore that you are behind your product.

*****

Episode 80: All About Libraries and How They Support Authors with Christian Nelson from the Austin Public Library

Tanya: How do libraries choose those print resources, or the titles that you guys bring in? How do you choose those books? And are there certain genres or subjects that sort of trend or are more attractive to you than others?

Christina: Sure. So there's actually a lot of factors that are taken into consideration when our librarians are choosing books to add to our collection, both print and digital. APL does have a material selection policy, which can be found on our website, if anybody wants to dig deep and read all the bullet points. But really, we're looking for materials that spark engagement, entertainment, possibly provide educational content, or just enlightenment. It's really something that is going to be also diverse and reflective of different topics or themes or content that really represents various viewpoints from across our city. So multiple perspectives, opinions, cultures, languages, and identities.

But there's more to it than that. We also are looking at the readability and the style of the material, the suitability for the format of library use. And so that kind of also goes into, is this something that can withstand being checked out several times? You know, the durability of it. But we also are reviewing book reviews and professional journals and the publication date of this item. Is it in high demand, is it something that the community is asking for? We're also looking at circulation trends of our community.

So those really do also influence our purchasing as far as what's happening in our city as our city changes, our communities are changing, which then reflects what are the needs and what are sort of those types of materials that the community is asking for. So looking at that as well is important. We definitely try to balance our collection to ensure that all members of our community have equitable access to a variety of resources.

One thing I want to mention before I forget is that anyone can actually access and visit any of the library branches, even without a library card to read a book in the library or access the computer or ask questions. And so those are all some of the great things that even if you don't have a card, you can still access but if you are an account holder, you are actually also able to submit up to four suggested title submissions per month and those suggestions, every single one of them are reviewed for consideration by a librarian.

Tanya: If there is an ebook and/or audio book component to a title, is that a factor in you bringing it in?

Christina: Yes, it can be. It's not the only factor, but it is helpful. So we have seen especially since the pandemic, our digital adult circulation has increased by over 300% since 2019. So we definitely do take into consideration whether a book is also available in digital format, but it's not limiting. If a book is only available in print, that's okay, too. What's really kind of the jackpot is if a title is available in print, ebook, and audiobook. So then we can purchase all of those formats, because then we're really able to really serve readers at a faster rate of delivery. Because some folks might say, Oh, the print book is not available right now. But I can go ahead and download the audio book and I can listen to it as I'm driving in Austin traffic.

Tanya: You’ll have plenty of time!

Christina: You'll finish the book in no time!

I think the goal of authors is to engage readers, to get their books out there, to get people interested in their story invested in what they're writing. And so libraries are a great segue to capture that audience. So even though libraries themselves will purchase copies for customers that will ultimately be borrowed for free. If a reader really becomes enthralled, and interested invested in that series, they're more likely then to purchase their own copy, or to attend that author event for an autographed copy that they, you know, squirrel away on the shelf. And then they have their, that's the don't touch Copy. And then this is the copy, they go through and then read again over and over, or they loan out to friends. So I really believe that libraries can help authors get their work into the public and really generate that excitement about their work.

And then readers frequently, too, they check out books at the library to try out a new author. And then if they find they discover that one, that they absolutely are like, Oh, my God, I have to read everything this person writes, then they're going to essentially go and purchase those books themselves. Right? It's just kind of that nice sort of a taste test. It's a great, you know, I tell how I think of the library collection, it's a great test test for people to kind of dip their toe and discover what it is they like.

Tanya: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think that discoverability element that the libraries bring is huge. And especially as we really need people to stumble upon something for the first time to give it a shot. It's increasingly difficult to do that online or on Amazon to find a book that you've never heard of before. So I'm alongside you in that school of thought that talking about how libraries promote authors or their books to the community.

*****

Thanks for listening to episode 81 of Published and returning to the highlights from this year. We’ll see you in 2024!