Today we’re joined by Michael Ebeling, who has developed The Author’s Business Formula, an approach that combats two of the most challenging parts of promoting a book: maintaining momentum after the launch, and converting readers into clients. In this episode, Michael will share how you as an author can set yourself up for success by creating a book funnel to learn more about the people buying your book.

Automatically generated transcript:

Welcome to Published, a podcast by Greenleaf Book Group, where we'll discuss the ins and outs of the publishing industry, from writing a book and finding the right publisher, to gearing up for a book launch. And now, here's your host, Greenleaf Book Group CEO, Tanya Hall.

Welcome back to Published. Today, we're joined by the CEO of Ebeling and Associates, Michael Ebeling, who brings over 20 years of publishing industry experience to his agency. Michael has developed The Author's Business Formula, an approach that combats two of the most challenging parts of promoting a book, maintaining momentum after the launch, and converting readers into clients. In this episode, Michael will share how you, as an author, can set yourself up for success by creating a book funnel to build your business. Please take a moment to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It means a lot to have your feedback, and it helps us to make sure we are answering your publishing questions. Now, let's dive into the interview. Michael, welcome to Published.

Well, thank you for having me. So excited to be talking with you today. Been watching you guys for a long time.

Aw, thank you. We appreciate that. Well, why don't you start by telling folks who you are and what you do?

So, I've been a literary agent for 30 years. Over that time, I found a lot of challenges with the industry, as we all have, especially the authors themselves. And I continued to look for fixes in that. I was very frustrated through the process because I would have 15, 20 titles every season with every publisher out there. And every year, it would come out every season. And each time that it happened, the book would just kind of be silent after book launch. And nothing would happen. And I couldn't understand when these publishers were promising me that they would support the book and support the marketing, support the publicity, that the book would just die on the vines and be off the bookshelves in six to eight weeks. So I've spent the last 10 years reformulating and looking at how to fix this problem for my authors because I promised them that I would deliver them long-term book sales and success. And I was not able to do it through the traditional channels that I had hoped for. And it was hard for me, for them, and for me.

And that's fascinating, and I'm sure a lot of listeners who have already published a book can share in that experience. So you, fast forward, came up with this idea of creating, we have a program to build a book funnel. So can you start by explaining maybe in broad strokes, what is this book funnel and what is it intended to do?

Let me take just a step back quickly. There's multiple problems with the traditional publishing model, but inherently with traditional publishing, it's very difficult for authors to be successful because it takes two and a half years to get their book to market. The publisher owns their copyright and their IP. They promise, over promise, and under deliver what they're going to do. And then at the end of the day, you don't know who's reading your book. So you don't have a relationship with your reader. And at the end of all of that, after waiting two and a half, three years for your book to come out, you make two dollars a book. So the challenge is that the customer acquisition cost to get the reader, and you only make two dollars, you're actually losing money in this process, and you're spinning your wheels, you're putting money into publicity, you're running around here making Facebook posts, you're trying to do book science, you're doing all this stuff, and it's not sustainable on two dollars. So what we wanted to do was flip the paradigm upside down, and have a relationship to the reader. Get the person who's reading your book in your world, be able to talk to them, be able to give them great content, be able to love them up, be able to show them the pathway, because all of our books are in the non-fiction, prescriptive how-to world. So that would be business or parenting or relationships. And we want to make sure that we can help the reader be able to achieve the transformation that our book provides. And if we're not able to be in contact with them, then we're not able to help them. The broad strokes with respect to the book funnel is to get the person on your e-mail list, give them opportunities to buy a little mini course, or then maybe a little bigger course. Products that help readers be able to get into that transformation and help them move from point A to point B. And you can't do that when the book is bought at Amazon or traditional bookstores because you don't know who's reading your book. And again, you're only making $2. So you have to sell a lot of books as an author to stay in business.

Yeah, well, it's very smart. And I think a challenge of anybody who even, let's say you're setting up your own Amazon account. I think sometimes people are surprised at how little information they can get about who's buying the book unless you set up a certain type of account that's maybe not as beneficial to you financially. So this is an interesting solution to be more strategic with trying to bring your audience into your world, as you put it. And be of greater service to them through other formats is what I'm hearing, like learning programs and workbooks and all that type of thing.

You have online programs, you have coaching programs, you can have group programs, you can have all the things that help, again, make that transformation easier. When you look at any other model out there in business, they are all doing this, but we don't do this in the publishing industry. When someone goes to McDonald's, the McDonald's is literally losing money on their Big Macs. But they're trying to get the customer to get into their world. Well, what happens when you buy the Big Mac? They offer, they say, would you like a large Coke and a fries? Those are their high margin products. Those are the products where they make money. It's the same when you go to a restaurant, they break even on the entree, but they make money on the drinks and the desserts. Or if you go to the grocery store, the point of purchase, they have all the checkouts. So you can't survive as an author in this business on a $2 royalty, and especially if all the work you're doing is building Amazon's business or the bookstore's business. You're giving your contact information, you're giving your readers out, you're doing all the work. You wrote the book, you got it out there, you got the publisher, you put it out there, and then they're benefiting from that customer acquisition.

Yeah, well, that makes sense. So you mentioned some prescriptive nonfiction genres, business, health and wellness, self-help, I suppose. Who may be getting a little more granular? Who does this book funnel work well for?

So any of those categories, it could be psychology, it could be weight loss, it could be exercise, it could be, again, wherever you're trying to get someone to go from point A to point B. Again, the book itself, most books, especially in the nonfiction world, 90 percent of those aren't read past the first chapter. So if they can't get past the first chapter, you're most likely not going to get them to be able to have that transformation. You're not going to get to help them because they're not reading your book. But what you are doing is you're tickling the consciousness of their pain. You're highlighting their pain. They know they have a problem. They know they want to be a better parent. They know they want to lose weight. They know they want to start a yoga practice, whatever it is. So what happens is that if you build this book funnel and you get the person in your world and you give them a bunch of great content, then you can take them to either mini courses or online courses or something, where you can actually help them with that transformation. Because these are long-term habitual behaviors in this genre. These aren't created in a day or two. These are months and years, right? You don't gain weight in a day. You don't become a bad in your relationship overnight. I mean, these are things you've learned over your lifetime. And so to unwind all those, you need the support of these back-end programs that have community, and lessons, and videos, and structure, and help them take them from point A to point B.

Well, I will say it sometimes feels like I gain weight in a day.

Yeah. Well.

So let's go back to this idea of driving traffic to your website to sell books versus leaning on an established platform like Amazon, where one would argue, well, the readers trust Amazon. It's quick. They're already set up with their payment information. It's like essentially a faster conversion. So can you talk about the why behind pushing traffic to the author's website just so we're really clear on that, and what factors someone might want to be thinking about in terms of limitations in relying on Amazon as the primary marketplace?

Having your own standalone landing page for this book funnel, not only do we have a welcome video, and not only do we have the book at less price than it would be on Amazon. It's usually $10, which includes free shipping and handling. But we also offer a number of free bonuses. Why we like the free bonuses is that as soon as someone buys the book and gets on there, they immediately get nice little starter bonus package stuff that are all around the message. So when someone buys a book on Amazon, we're all so busy and we're going around, and then the next thing you know, three days later or two days later that book shows up, and you've lost that little momentum, the reader has lost that momentum or that energy. But if they start getting bonuses right away, and they can go in there and they can watch some videos or do a little email program or go through here or watch this, you're already steeping them into that consciousness of where they're at and trying to help them right away. Then they're even more excited to get the book, which motivates them more to read the book. So we're a very busy society and we're all over the board, and to be able to capture their attention when they're with you is the most important thing. A lot of people just buy the books so they can get the bonuses, because they're really great bonuses. I mean, they have all this great content that you normally wouldn't get unless you were going through the book file.

So then is there an ad campaign of some sort? How do you drive people to the actual author website?

Absolutely. So, I don't care what business you're in, if you own a yogurt shop, or if you're a dentist, or whatever your business is, traffic is key. You have to have traffic. Then the next thing in any author business is the opt-in, the free gift, the ethical bribe. But you have to have an opt-in. So the book funnel is your opt-in, right? But over here is your traffic. What we're seeing more and more these days is the best traffic source and the cheapest traffic source, and because they're authors, they're already in the genre they want to be writing, is to write a weekly column for a publication that's in their genre. So you could write, for instance, one of our authors writes for Psychology Today once a week. But why that's so important is every article is always about the topic you're talking about. So for instance, her stuff is all about childhood emotional neglect. Every article that she writes for Psychology Today is about childhood emotional neglect with how it affects your health, how it affects your family, how it affects your kids, how it affects your parents, how it affects your workplace, how it affects you. At the bottom, the byline is there. If you want to find out more about Dr. Janice Webb, you can take her quiz here, you can buy her book here, and there's live links in that byline. That is the most highly converting media source there is these days. You're one click away from having that person be in your world. They don't even have to buy anything. They could be just getting a free opt-in, or they could do the book funnel, or they could be a quiz. Whatever the opt-in is, it doesn't matter. If they get off that page, and they go down, and they're on another page, and they're off on Facebook, or they're this, or they're that, they're gone. If they're driving down the road, and they're on a radio show, people aren't going to pull over and go try to find that website. If they're even on a podcast, they've got to stop that, they've got to go over. So we lose people so quickly, especially TV, right? They're not going to stop their TV and come over and try to get on their computer and look for that. So these columns, because authors love to write, and they can get content out. So that's the first piece. The second piece about the columns that are amazing, as you know from your podcast, is content is gold. And so if you put out good content, that puts up in the SEO rankings on Google, and that can last for years and years and years and years. We have people coming back to her website and a number of authors that have written articles five, ten years ago because those are still being ranked high in the search engine. So that content doesn't die in the vine like a TV show or radio show. This is very important for these authors to know that this lives on.

Yeah, that's the digital footprint that we like to talk about. It is critical for SEO, so that's very smart. And for anybody who's in the possibility world of producing a podcast, that's one of the things that I think people overlook, is having a transcript of that podcast immediately gives you that digital searchable footprint. So, that's another thing. Just a little tidbit for people to be thinking about. Now, I want to go back. You mentioned something about pricing earlier, this $10 price for the book, and that probably caught some folks' ears. So, why would you be pricing it lower than retail? And can you talk through the strategy there and how that sets someone up for success in this book funnel?

Absolutely. So, if authors have done any training at all in this world, one of the biggest and best online marketing people out there is a gentleman named Jeff Walker. He wrote a book called Launch, and what he will tell you and what a lot of the digital marketers out there and experts in the space will tell you is that an email address is worth $12. Every year, it's on your list. It's literally worth 6X the book royalty. We personally would rather trade at a break even for the $10 for the book and free shipping and handling, and I can explain how that works, and get that email address and know who's reading our book and be able to help them go to the next level in their healing process or in fixing whatever problem they have, than to just get $2 once the book goes away, you'd never hear from this person again. So to us, it's worth 6X the value to have them on your list, know that you're reading your book. Some of the most famous movies out there, whether it was Ray or was it Titanic or whatever, they toggle between current day and past day, right? We can do the same thing with our email. Now that they're on our email list, we can have an email series that goes, oh, and remember in Chapter 2, where Susie was really struggling with her kids, and she was bringing up all this stuff about child and emotional neglect, you can toggle between your email sequence and keeping them involved in reading the book because you know where they're at. It creates this synergy that you have between the two platforms. Getting them on our email address to us is much more important. We know who's reading our book and we can actually help them.

That's interesting. You prefer that pricing approach to something like, the book is free, just pay shipping?

Yeah. What we found is that people don't value the book as much when the book is free. Nobody wants to pay for shipping when you're with Amazon. To price it at 10, and you can price it at 15, you can price it at 12, you can price it at whatever you want to do. But for us, we're really trying to make this a no-brainer for anyone who wants to buy the book. It's just like, okay, this is when we're going to give you all the bonuses, you're going to have all this support and structure. So how that math works is with a hybrid publisher like yourself, or a self-publishing company, depending upon how you guys structure your contract, the author can get their books at a much deeper discount than they would with a traditional publisher. Traditional publishers are going to say you have to pay 50 percent of the retail price. So if it's 15, you got to pay 750. That's not going to work in this model because then you're going to have to add shipping and fulfillment and all the different pieces to that piece. But if you get your books for three, four, five dollars, this model works perfectly. It still works very well for the publisher, it still works very well for the author in terms of royalties, and it still really works well for you in terms of the author, in terms of building the list and having a deeper connection with the readers.

So if an author has a forthcoming book, how do they think about integrating this into their overall marketing strategy? Is this something that comes later after the launch, so as not to interfere with retail sales? Is this something that rolls alongside all of their other activities, like their promotional tours and podcast appearances? How do you think about that?

Well, what we do that I don't know that anybody else does because we're very steeped in a couple of modalities of Internet marketing that we feel are compassionate marketing models, is that we ask our audience where they reside. We try to extract out their pain points, their obstacles, their language. We really try to find out where they are in the process. Let's just say quickly, what's the biggest obstacle when it comes to starting a yoga practice? Well, I'm not flexible enough. I don't have the time. It's too new agey. I'm overweight, whatever those things are. What we find when we do our secret sauce, and we do this deep dive, deep discovery survey into our audience is we not only find the four or five buckets or segments of where people are, so that we can write emails specifically to that. I'm going to go back to your point here, but we also find the language. We find out collectively if we get 200 or 250 responses collectively in each bucket, we have all the language of where these people are, and we can mirror that back to them so that we know, hey, we're listening. We know this is why it's challenging because you don't have enough time or because you feel like it's too new agey or whatever that is. What we found in this process is that when we do these deep discovery surveys as one of the first pieces of the funnel, the message gets synthesized, and the book, if they're still writing the book, becomes a better book. And they're able to put these takeaways in the book because they're already understanding their readers ahead of time. Most people assume they know their readers, and they may know their readers, they may not. But if they do, they may just know what those obstacles are, but they don't know the language, they don't know where the pain is, they don't know how to write to them. Most authors write one email to everybody. But people could be, and I just explained, five different places of starting yoga practice. So if we know where they fall in, then we can help them in each of those places, because it's a completely different thing. If you feel like you're a little overweight versus you don't have the time. I mean, those are completely different ways to talk to your audience. So we do a very deep dive survey to make sure we're crystal clear on who we're working with, and that we can mirror back. So when these people get the email, they're like, how do we know, how do these guys know us so well? It's because we asked, we did our work, we dug in there, we found out where they're at, and we don't just guess, right? So it's very powerful, and it makes these book funnels highly converting because we did our work up front.

So it's a bit of market research, really.

It really is. It is. And most people don't do that this day. They build a product based on something, or they write a book, or they just say, hey, there's always people that need this, but they still may write a great book, and they still may hit a few of those points, but they don't have the language, they don't have the content that is regurgitated, but they're mirrored back to them that can help them understand their people more deeply.

Yeah, that's interesting. So let's fast forward to the how. We've been on the why. So some people are probably listening and thinking, like, I don't know how to set this stuff up on my website, it sounds complicated. Can you speak to that? Are there tools that you can recommend, or somebody can make this happen? Is it complicated to set up something like this online?

So, what I think is complicated is what authors are doing today, because they're getting many messages, they're getting messages from every direction. They're told to do publicity over here, they're told to get on TikTok over here, they're told to do emails over here, they're podcast over here. Because authors are artists, compassionately, I say, they're like bad air traffic controllers. They have all these ideas, they have all these planes, right? And they're trying to land all these planes at once, and they're never landing one plane properly and getting all the passengers off safely because they're trying to land. So another idea, another book, another idea, right? And so you ask if it's hard. What I think is hard is that authors don't set up a framework, they don't set up a structure, they don't set up a book funnel, where all of their activity, I don't care what it is, it's all driven to the same point. It all comes in the same place because we know what's highly converting. Our program has seven modules and 50 videos. They're all chunked up in nice two, three, four, five minute videos, but it's linear. And you go through the process, there's cheat sheets, there's email templates, there is modules on tech, there's modules on setups, there's modules on video. Everything is set up chronologically, so you just go through the process and build this.

Yeah, and so you're talking about bringing them to the website so they have the opportunity to purchase these higher margin services or products. So can you give some examples of what that might look like? I wonder if someone might be listening to this thinking, well, my book, that doesn't apply. I don't have a workbook or maybe I'm not interested in doing public speaking.

It's super easy. So the traffic to Optin, the Optin is the book funnel, right? So they go traffic and then they buy your book and they get the bonuses, which we help them design all the bonuses, right? That's part of the whole program. Then they get an email that says, hey, thank you for the order of the book. We're really excited. Here's a link to all of our bonuses. We're excited to have you. We'll be sending you out some emails over the next few weeks with a bunch of free content and videos. You're just loving these people up, right? Then immediately, you offer them, hey, if you want to go in, we've got a mini course right now and it's $49. It will help you jumpstart this whole process while you're waiting for the book. It's a little bump offer for $49. Just like cokes and fries or desserts and drinks, you're waiting for your dinner, but you're getting your drink. People come to websites because they want something for themselves. They want to fix something, they want to change something, they want to grow, they want to make more money, they want to have a better relationship. These mini courses are really a great way to start people, to get them going into the message of fixing what they're wanting to fix. Then it cruise along and then there's an opportunity to buy another program. At 199, if you want to go a little deeper, we have a little upsell program. These are small numbers for most people in terms of fixing the problem. If you go to a therapist, it's going to be $150 or $200 an hour and you got to schedule it, you got to show up and drive and all that. If you could do this at home, people love these kinds of programs to help them fix their problems. When you start looking at the math, not only is your customer order average coming up based on having back-end programs, but also you would have to sell 200 books for one upsell of $200. I'm sorry, 100 books at $2. So you're building your revenue streams off the back of the book. You're turning your book into a business. Bump offers, upsells, and then a lot of authors in this genre, I've worked with some of the biggest in the world, Deepak Chopra and Neil Donnell Walsh and Marianne Williamson. They're going to have a max product on the back. They're going to have a mentoring program, they're going to have a live event. That fits perfectly on the back end of this e-mail sequence is they grow through a couple of weeks down the line. It's like they're getting to know you, they're immersed in your products, they're reading your book, they're like, these guys know what they're doing, this is really helping me, I'm making changes. Then the larger offer can be put on the back end. If you look at any author out there that's online and they're big, they're most likely put in some form of a funnel together because they understand that the margins are not in the book, the book is a lead magnet. As I said earlier, it tickles the consciousness of their pain so that they realize, yeah, I want to fix this problem, but I can't just do it with the book. I need support and videos and takeaways that can help me go deeper into the message. It's really simple the way we have it set up. It will take probably a month, maybe two months for an author to build a book funnel, but they have everything. Part of what we do in the process is we have 12 coaching hours through the process. So it's a hybrid to use your model. It's a hybrid between a done for you and a do-it-yourself. And we also guarantee that everyone gets to the finish line. So they all have a finished book funnel. And in fact, at the end, when all the branding and the videos and the colors and the bonuses and everything are together, you hand it back over to us and we put it all together. We do all the tech for you and put it together, and then we give it back to you and you have a fully functioning book funnel.

Awesome. And I love that because it helps people scale their business of one, right? I think sometimes that's where authors get in trouble and they get exhausted by having to do all of these individual webinars or speaking sessions or coaching. But having that passive income from something like a learning course is a different game.

Most people are wanting to support small businesses. Most people are wanting to work with a person that's actually done the book. So everything gets pointed in to the funnel, and then it takes away all that. It's like, I don't care what I'm doing. It will go to that funnel, and I know it's going to convert. I know X amount of people are going to hit that. I know X amount of people are going to buy the book, and you're going to buy X amount of people are going to buy the bump. You'll know these stats. So if I drive 100 people, I know how many people are going to buy the book, how many people are going to buy the bump, and how many people are going to buy the ones. You just keep driving people and everything, all your activity. And for me, what I love is that the traffic source that is the highest converting, as we talked about earlier, and doing an online column in the genre you are, and these guys are looking for content. They want you to write articles. You write for ink. You know that. They want this, right? So to me, if you're an author, you like to write. You want to write. So you get to do this, and you get to write about your topic, and you get to write for free, and you get to drive traffic for free. Look at all the money we spend trying to drive traffic. You get to do it in your wheelhouse.

So you have worked with many authors now in building these book funnels. Where do they trip? What are the mistakes that you see folks make, and how can someone avoid that?

Going too fast, going through the modules and the videos step-by-step, not relying on us in the process, because we're the experts. We've been doing this for years. So as we said earlier, authors can be bad traffic controllers. So they're trying to do everything ahead of time. So that's why we created a chronological, sequential, linear coaching program. So once we're done with this step, then we go to that step. Once we go to this step, so that's the first piece. The other piece I think is really, really important is to really think about your traffic source. What I like to do with the authors is I like to do the top 10, let's say, running magazines. So the top 10 running magazines and I'll do a whole assessment. How many people do they have on Facebook? How many people they have on Twitter? How many people, what's their opt-in? What are they doing? How big is their e-mail list? If you can find that. I try to find out where the highest traffic sourced columns are and the best fit for your message because running is broad, right? You could be talking about running 5Ks or marathons or trainings. So then you dial in your message and then you pitch them to do a column with a couple sample columns because traffic is everything. Otherwise, we're, again, it's like a machine gun approach to this marketing stuff and none of it's converting. So dial it in, get very centered, figure out where you want to drive traffic from. You can't get a better place, right? If you got a running book and you got a running online publication, get that column so that piece is in any business. If you don't have traffic, you're probably not going to be successful. Everybody tries to buy this traffic. They try to go out and do Facebook ads and they try to set up a book sign-in and sell 10 bucks, or they try to spend 20,000 on publicity. It's not sustainable.

Getting down in the weeds a little bit, but in your opinion, if they have an opportunity to write a column like you're talking about and in their byline, they're forbidden from linking out, is it even worth it?

No. And you find that ahead of time. I would vet that 100 percent ahead of time. If they're not providing at least the opportunity to have a live link to your website, at least that link. Now, you can mask that link, right? You can still run that to your landing page if you want. We also recommend on everybody's websites that they have a really nice header up top, but what's above the fold would be a banner with that opt-in, with that book funnel. So that they don't have to scroll down. So it's still very prominent on the homepage right up top, and it has to be super enticing. So these book funnels are enticing. But yeah, no, if you're not, there's no reason. I mean, if you can't get the link, you can't get the traffic.

Right. Because then we're back to what you talked about earlier, is anticipating someone's going to take a moment to go search you and find your website, and it's just extra work they're not going to do. So for the folks who are listening and are loving everything that you're saying, this makes all the sense in the world. How do they start?

Well, there's a great video to watch that my wife produced. It's a training video. It's totally free, and that's at monetizeyourbook.com. So they can watch that. It'll explain the process. I think it's one of the best videos I've seen in terms of the overarching understanding of how to build a business as an author through one of these book funnels. At the end of that, there's an application to do a free strategy call with us. We like the strategy calls and the applications, because we can vet in the application if they're a good fit for us and vice versa. Then we just do a 45-minute strategy call and see if it's a fit or not a fit for them and their book title. It's not intimidating at all because there's no commitment. You just watch the video and see if you want to talk. Well, a lot of times, we find a lot of things that we can help people with in their business, and we do help them and point them that way that have nothing to do with the book funnels. Then we just go our way, and they do that. A lot of people aren't ready for a book funnel. They just need a traffic source and an opt-in, and the book funnel may not help them. They be a little above their pay grade, so we help them at more of an entry level, and then we go away.

Okay, great. Well, you've given us so much great information today. Any parting advice that we didn't cover yet, and also maybe tell folks again where they can find you?

Authors are very passionate about their books, and I understand, and I get that. We have a book that's coming out for us too, and we understand that. But I think if you can see the book through the lens of the fact that it's literally a lead magnet, it's a glorified business card that's helping bring people into your world, into your message, but to focus on building a structure that's going to help them make money as an author, keep them in business, be able to scale their message, be able to help people, be able to do what they were put here to do, right? And a lot of people that are writing books have been developing that message for five, 10, 15, 20 years. This is their baby. This is their thing. But they get lost in it through the lens of the book. Look at it more of an overarching business that you're building a business here and where you're really going to help people is in the coaching programs. You're going to help people in the mentoring. You're going to help people in your programs. That's where you're going to help make the change. The book is just the lens through. Again, watch the video there at monetizeyourbook.com. We're happy to jump on a call with you guys and help anybody who needs to. We've been doing this for a long time. We have very high-end authors who all built these funnels, and they're all very happy. What we love most is that it's year in and year out. The books just keep selling. You keep building your list. That book is not finite to that book launch. It goes on and on and on and on. So, yeah, build a business.

Thank you so much for joining us, Michael.

Yeah, thank you, Tanya. We appreciate it so much.

That's it for today's episode with Michael Ebeling. We hope you enjoyed learning about how to create a book funnel to grow your business. For more information, visit greenleafbookgroup.com/episode95. You can also find advice for writing, publishing, and promoting your work in my book, Ideas, Influence, and Income, which you can learn more about at ideasinfluenceandincome.com. A big thank you to Madison Johnson, who produces the published podcast, and to our five star reviewers. Thank you for your support, and we will be back with another episode on the last Tuesday of next month.

Michael Ebeling is CEO of Ebeling & Associates, and brings over 20 years of publishing industry experience to his agency. Learn more about his services at monetizeyourbook.com.