Welcome to Episode 73 of Published. Today, we're joined by Danielle Green, a book influencer and brand strategist at Greenleaf, to talk about reader communities on social media and how authors can use them to promote their books. In today's episode, we're tackling BookTok and Bookstagram, two platforms most authors have heard of, but few know how to tap into effectively.

Social media is an excellent tool to connect with your audience and reach readers outside of your network. Understanding how to get plugged into these online communities dedicated to reading can dramatically expand your reach. Like any tool though, there's a right way and a wrong way to use it. Book influencers have cracked this code and an endorsement or partnership with the right book influencer can lead to massive visibility.

Danielle will share her insight about using TikTok and Instagram to promote your book, the benefits of working with book influencers, and how to approach others about collaborating. Danielle, welcome to Published.

01:22 – So, tell us a bit about yourself and what you do at Greenleaf.

• My name is Danielle, and I am a brand strategist here at Greenleaf. I work very closely with our authors to amplify and create their online presence, to fully cultivate their websites and social media and newsletters, to really further help promote themselves, and make sure they have a good home base leading up to book publication so that readers and viewers can have a place for them to find them and read about them and further promote themselves.

01:55 – Very important. And I'm sure that some of our listeners who are starting on their author journey have heard of BookTok. Can you explain what that is in case they're just scratching their heads?

• Yes, of course. So BookTok is a very specific community within the app of TikTok. So, if you will excuse the analogy, if you look at TikTok as a big tree, BookTok is one of the big branches of that tree. And then there are even smaller branches within just BookTok that are smaller communities that might focus on a particular genre of a book or a particular type of content that these influencers are doing. BookTok is actually considered one of the biggest subcommunities on TikTok as a whole so it's gotten very popular over the last few years.

02:44 – And maybe you can speak to that a bit. So why is TikTok such a powerful platform for authors and what can they expect there? Are they connecting with readers? Are they connecting with industry people? Reviewers?

• So BookTok is actually a combination of both readers, reviewers, regular bloggers, and even other publishers are on BookTok and other authors which I think is really important. I think authors and even aspiring authors are starting to really see the benefits of what TikTok has, both TikTok and Instagram.
• The genius of TikTok is how instantaneous it is for its viewers. TikTok has this feature called the ‘for you page.’ And that page, it's algorithm on TikTok is formulated by what that viewer that's using TikTok is constantly seeing and liking and commenting. So whenever somebody whether you're an author or even just a regular content creator, whenever you post something on TikTok and that gets uploaded, the reaction is immediate, and you have a direct line to your readers or even potential readers.
• Let's say for example, if you've written a thriller novel, this is a great way for you to reach instantaneously the thriller community or people who read thrillers or even people who are trying to get into thriller books. And it also is just another way to fully engage.

• What TikTok has made a lot easier sometimes than other social media platforms is the ability to directly engage with your followers and your readers through stitching and duetting.
• In case people don't understand what those are, duetting is essentially being able to record yourself while you are watching another person's video so you can react in real-time to someone else's video.
• Stitching is essentially a response video. So, you'll see the first couple seconds of someone else's video and then it'll directly go to you, and you can record yourself responding to that video, whether it's to thank them or to just comment on something that they said. TikTok has a vast amount of different ways where you can engage with your readers and potential readers in the future.

04:53 – And so, for people who are new to it and maybe thinking I don't want to tackle another social media platform, how do you, for lack of a better term, break into TikTok? And how do you engage specifically within the BookTok community effectively?

• Yeah, for sure. That's a great question. Obviously, social media can be very overwhelming, especially since it seems like there's a new platform that pops up every few years. And it feels like you have to continue to keep up to date with everything.
• What I tell my authors is a few key steps to start out with, obviously, setting up your page is very important. And you can keep it simple, make sure your profile picture is a picture of you. I've seen some authors will have their profile picture of the book cover. Again, I recommend keeping it to your headshot if you have one. So, whatever you use as your headshot on the back of your book, keep that. It makes it very cohesive and easy to find.
• For content viewers and other readers that are trying to find you, keep your bio super short. I believe TikTok actually requires that, they don't let you write your giant, long bio that's going to be in the back of your book. So simple thing about who you are, what you write, and anything kind of personal that you want to add.
• I would also suggest creating, just to get you started, one video. I would suggest no longer than 15 to 30 seconds of just explaining who you are, what you've written, if you have a physical copy of your book already you can even show your book and kind of why you wrote it. And this gives any viewers that are on your page, they can at least have something to go off to understand who you are and why you're on TikTok, and your goals.

• So, once you've done that, just setting up the basics for your page, the biggest part of it is research and scrolling. I'll recommend if you type in BookTok into the search bar in TikTok, that hashtag alone has over 122 billion views. So, there are a lot of videos and so much content for everybody to go through. And I would suggest for authors just to start scrolling to get themselves acclimated, seeing what's trending right now.
• And what does trending mean, what's popular right now, what sounds and music? If you see a sound or a clip of music that's being repeated over and over again, that's going to be trending. If people are just setting up their camera and talking, what are they talking about? Are they doing book hauls? Are they doing more book reviews? Are they talking about their favorite books?

• Once an author feels more acclimated with BookTok as a whole, and they kind of understand what kind of content is really happening in that community, then you can start to be more specific and focused in your search. So, if we're going to continue with the thriller analogy, type in thrillers in the search bar or thriller books. See what content creators specialize in thriller books. And I mean, usually, the reason why they specialize in these books, is because that's just their favorite genre. So that's their niche, they always talk about thriller books.
• Start to see what other content creators are constantly talking about your genre. What other authors do they like? At that point that should get you kind of in a rabbit hole. And a big part of it too, I think is what you enjoy watching as an author. When you start to really get acclimated and get comfortable with TikTok, who do you like watching? What kind of content do you like seeing? Do you like watching more humorous content? Do you like watching content that is always voiceovers, is it more serious? And then after that, your ‘for you page,’ FYP, will start to understand what you're looking for and the algorithm will just work for itself.

08:31 – Awesome, great advice. And you mentioned the plethora of platforms. What are some of the other platforms that book influencers specifically are using?

• Yeah, that's a great question too. I would say the biggest two after TikTok are Instagram and YouTube. The three of them are similar in the sense that now all three of them including Instagram, use and utilize video content. Of course, YouTube is going to mean much longer format and I think that YouTube got really popular with book influencers around 2014 to 2017, right before the TikTok jump that happened. And I think that YouTube is really useful for people who really enjoy long form and I'm talking about at least 10-to-30-minute videos going into deep reviews on books or if they have a huge book haul and they're showing off, you know, 30 books that they bought in the last month, they are able to show all of those.
• Instagram is the closest to TikTok. Of course, Instagram is an older platform. What makes Instagram unique versus TikTok is that it really specializes in photographs. However, they do have a feature called reels, which is essentially just like TikTok videos. They're short-form videos, where you can scroll through. YouTube and Instagram are going to be the top two other social platforms besides TikTok to look out for where influencers are thriving.
• The other platforms are LinkedIn, Twitter, and Reddit. Those are also pretty popular. But I think that a platform such as LinkedIn will be much more specified to nonfiction or business thought leaders who have happened to write books, that's going to be much more of a niche and more focalized platform.
• And then of course, there's Facebook, however, I always hesitate to overly promote or overly encourage my authors to use Facebook unless they already have a really in-depth and well-developed following just because, unfortunately, from my experience, from what I've seen, Facebook is now turning into the next MySpace, and it's slowly being phased out. Which makes me sad, of course, I feel like I was in a generation where Facebook was the main biggest platform right when MySpace kind of went kaput. But yeah, unfortunately, unless you already have a great following there and lots of connections, I wouldn't focus on cultivating the large following there.

11:01 – There you go. You heard it first. So are there differences in how an author promotes on let's say, Bookstagram versus BookTok?

• There are differences between Bookstagram and BookTok as a whole, but the differences are going to be pretty minor. So TikTok, generally speaking, is going to be a younger audience. These are going to be mostly Gen Z. Of course, there are still millennials, Gen X, and even some boomers are going to be on TikTok. But it's mostly going to be run by Gen Z.
• Instagram is going to be slightly older, and that's just because it's an older app, you're going to see more millennials, I think that's going to be the biggest generation that's on Instagram.

• Also, I would say, specifically speaking about BookTok and the Bookstagram communities, from what I have found, Instagram tends to be a little bit more on the aesthetically appealing side, especially since mostly you're going to see a lot of people don't even do a lot of reels, because Instagram is known for photos rather than videos. So, it's going to be more pictures of bookshelves and more pretty photos. And I also feel like with Instagram, sometimes there can be a disconnect, there's more of a distance between the creator and the community.
• Whereas on TikTok, you're going to see a lot more personal content, it's going to be much braver content. And I think that also has to do with age again. And you're going to see much more humorous content on TikTok. Having both is really beneficial, not just for authors, but for anybody trying to build a platform, because that way, you have much more reach and you're allowing yourself to engage with just much more people and you're not completely focused on one particular platform.

12:57 – Yeah, that makes sense. So, you've worked with a lot of authors, and specifically sort of coaching them on social media things to build their platform. So how have you seen authors benefit from using these platforms?

• Yeah, so it's amazing what can happen, first, to an author's confidence once they start getting comfortable with social media. Obviously, I think that sometimes I have to talk them into understanding why social media is so important nowadays. But really, it's just for visibility. And so, watching them be surprised by how many people start following them and engaging with them, I think that's the most surprising thing for authors. It's getting the book out to thousands of eyes immediately. That's just something that word of mouth cannot do in today's day and age. Of course, word of mouth is higher quality promotion, in my opinion. But when it comes to quantity, it just can't compare.
• Helping my authors and showing them the possibilities of being able to be on multiple platforms and being able to show off themselves to us as people I think gets them really excited. A lot of authors that I work with happened to be more business leaders or thought leaders and so being able to help them on their creative side as well and being able to show that off on their social media has been really fun.

• I actually have a very specific example of the power of social media that has been shown very recently this year. And this was not a Greenleaf author. This was just a self-published, older gentleman who wrote a thriller book. His name is Lloyd Devereux Richards, and he had no platform. He had nothing. He didn't have a website. He didn't have any social media. He wrote a thriller novel called Stone Maidens.
• If you are on social media, you've probably already heard this story, but it's just remarkable to me. Self-published, and he just was not having any luck with getting it up and running and getting any eyes on it. He didn't know what to do. So, his daughter made him a TikTok completely from scratch and she posted one video, just one. She had five hashtags on it. And she just showed him writing. And she made it very personal, saying how hard he's worked on this book, she added some emotional music in the background, which always helps.
• Overnight, it gained millions of views. As of right now, it has over 54 million views to it. He became an Amazon Best Seller overnight. And now he has half a million followers on TikTok. Of course, again, you can't guarantee that's going to happen every time, social media isn't exact but that's just one of the many examples of how powerful it can be, especially when you add a personal touch to it and show the person behind social media.

15:42 –I love that story. That's super powerful. That's a good daughter. So, authors recruit your kids.

• You know that’s not a bad idea. If you have a child that's a teenager or even someone in their early 20s, and they understand [social media] and they're on TikTok? Ask them to show you the ropes, ask them to show you how it works. They're there. And hopefully, they'll be there to support you. So, I think that's actually not a bad idea.

16:11 – All right. So down to the how-to content now. Listeners may be thinking, yeah, I need to get into this TikTok BookTok bank. How do they go about researching the influencers that we're talking about, and possibly pitching them for some sort of collaboration?

• Like I said before, research is going to be your best friend. Start big, start typing in things like BookTok, or even just books on TikTok, start scrolling and look at view count. And just go over to the content creator’s profile page, see who they're following. Once you start doing that, you can, like I said, you can start to vocalize it. And you can start looking at your specific genre.
• After a while, you will start seeing content creators who specialize in particular genres. So, there's nonfiction, there's romance, there's thriller, and there's even thriller versus horror, there's fantasy. And you'll be able to find lots of different content creators who tend to specifically talk about that one genre. Once you found a few, start following them, comment on their videos, or even just start liking them and let them know that you're there.
• Someone with a good robust following is somebody that has 10,000 followers or more. And I would say that both on TikTok and Instagram. When it comes to traction start looking for influencers with that, not to say influencers that have less than that number of followers won't be useful as well.
• Also, who's really engaged with their followers? TikTok makes it very easy. If you go in the comment section, it'll say in bright pink or bright red if the creator has liked or commented on a comment on their video, so just see how engaged they are. That will give you a good idea of how responsive they might be.

• Regarding pitching yourself as an author, once you've started following them, and engaging with them a little bit in their comment section, then reach out to them. And you can do this through either DMing them or direct messaging them on the app or emailing them. A lot of influencers, myself included, have our emails attached to our profiles, and you'll be able to see that both on TikTok and Instagram. Just start reaching out to them and saying that you would love to send them a copy of your book. It could be an eBook or a physical book; usually, influencers are flexible about what format they want to receive it in. Kindle is obviously popular nowadays. And you know, you won't get a response from every single person, but you might get one or two or three at first.
• It would be my advice to just pitch them and ask them I would love to send you a copy of my novel, I'd love for you to read it. And then that's it. No expectations, especially if it's just you reaching out. What you might start to run into if you start asking them, can you please leave a review for it, can you please post about this, is that some influencers, depending on how big of a following they have, actually get paid per review. And so, it just depends on your budget as well. If you have the budget and you'd like to pay them for that, then that's your own prerogative, but at least offer to send them a copy of your book.

19:13 – Okay. And now you mentioned that you are a Bookstagramer and a BookToker. Feel free to plug yourself, but also how do you like to be pitched? And what are you looking for in terms of the pitches that you say yes to?

• Yeah, I love that question. First, I accept direct messages or emails, but that's only because I'm on the apps all the time anyway. Not during work hours. But I'm checking my messages all the time. And I try to be good about responding to people, especially if they're asking me questions, whether it's for book recommendations, or if somebody's reaching out to me, “I'd love for you to read my book.”
• Email is also good for me personally because I keep my inbox to zero whether it's my personal or work email. That's not necessarily the case for everyone. I would say if you do see an email attached to their profile, I would try emailing them first only because that's going to seem a little bit more professional. If you don't hear anything back from them after a couple of days or a couple of weeks, then try to DM them and see if you get a response there. You just never know what they might see first. I don't think it's a detriment to try both ways. But I would suggest waiting a little bit in between the two before you try whichever method next.

20:33 – Okay, and are there any do's and don'ts when it comes to this type of self-promotion really on TikTok and Instagram?

• Yes. Well, first, again, I want to reiterate that social media, for the most part, is trial and error. You just kind of have to try it out and see what works a lot of the time, especially on TikTok. And I found this with my own content, what I think will do well, won't. And what I don't think will get any views, gets thousands of views. So, you just kind of have to try things out and test and experiment and have fun with it. I think that's important too.
• As I said before, I know that social media can be really intimidating. But don't let it fool you. Don't let it scare you. Have fun with it. Don't engage with trolls. I think that that's a big one that a lot of people tend to forget, trolls still exist on social media. And these are just people who are looking for a reaction. And I think that it can be very easy, especially if it's somebody commenting negatively on your book, this is not a genuine review, this is somebody just being mean in the comments or mean in your direct messages for no reason. Don't engage, it's not worth it. And again, they're just trying to get a reaction out of you.

• But the biggest do in this case, especially with TikTok, but with social media in general, is to be authentic. And that is something that I tell every single one of my authors, no matter what their genre is or what their goals are. That's been the biggest change that TikTok has made on social media, is the authenticity of everybody on TikTok.
• Now that social media has been around for 30 years, basically, at this point, 25-30 years, people are getting very tired of feeling like they're being sold to or lied to, feeling like they're being influenced inauthentically. So just be yourself. Bring your personality into your page. And your readers will be able to see that, and they'll be able to feel that when they're watching your content.

22:32 – Awesome. Well said. All right. Well, you've given us a ton of information and great advice today, any parting words for our listening authors?

• All I'll say is again, like I said before, just be open-minded when it comes to social media. Don't give up hope. Don't get discouraged. Sometimes it takes a while for you to build a following, it took me a couple of years to build. Most of my followers are on Instagram, just because that's where I started, so it took me a while but I'm not an author yet. Ask questions, engage.
• And if you want to follow me on Instagram, my handle is @agreatandterriblelibrary, which I know is very long. It's inspired by one of my favorite books from when I was a kid.
• Greenleaf is here to answer any more questions on social media. We do have social media coaching and platform coaching which I would lead.

23:22 – Great. Danielle, thank you again for joining us today. You were awesome.

• Thanks so much for having me. I had a good time.

That's it for our episode today with Danielle. We hope you enjoyed learning about book influencers on TikTok and Instagram. For notes and resources from today's show go to greenleafbookgroup.com/episode73.

You can also find advice for writing, publishing, and promoting your work in my book Ideas, Influence and Income, which you can learn more about at ideasinfluenceandincome.com. If you've enjoyed our show, please rate and review us on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever it is you listen to your podcasts. It means a lot to have your feedback and helps us make sure we're answering your publishing questions. A big thank you to Eleanor Fishbourne and Madison Johnson who produce the Published podcast and we will be back next month with another episode.