Welcome to Episode 67 of Published. Today we're back with another Q & A episode for you. Our in-house publishing consultant David Endris has compiled some of the most common distribution related questions we get from authors, and he has returned to interview me. In this episode, we discussed the ins and outs of book distribution to help authors navigate the best ways to share their books with the world.

0:44 – Welcome back to published. In this episode you'll be hearing from me. If you're new to the podcast, here’s a little bit about me.

· I'm Tanya Hall, the CEO of Greenleaf Book Group. During my time at Greenleaf, I've worn many hats from director of distribution, to head of business development, to CEO, and more. Today, I'll share my insights into the book distribution process as I work to answer your questions.

· You'll also hear from one of our in-house consultants David Endris, who assists in the acquisition of new titles at Greenleaf and helps authors build successful book launch strategies. He'll chime in with his thoughts and tips as we go.

· David and I both get lots of questions from authors about distribution. So, we thought doing an updated distribution focused podcast would be beneficial.

· In this episode, we'll discuss how to connect with wholesalers and distributors, what it takes to get a book into bookstores, how international distribution works, and more. If you've ever had questions about the distribution side of the book business, this is the episode for you. Let's get into the interview.

1:47 – Tanya, welcome back to Published. Today we're talking about distribution. And we're answering a lot of questions that we get about that. And I'm so glad we are because distribution, obviously, is one of the most important parts of the book publishing process, but also one of the most misunderstood aspects of the industry. To kick things off, could you start by helping our listeners understand in a broad sense, what the different distribution options are?

· Sure, that's a great question. I'll define them sort of in the terms that we divide them by here at Greenleaf Book Group.

· When we talk about “traditional distribution,” we don't mean like traditional New York houses, we mean, traditional distribution in the sense that we're pursuing brick and mortar. So that requires an offset print run, usually of a few 1000 copies at least, and a certain timeline where we're pitching retailers six months before the book comes out. And books are traveling all across the country and making pitstops at wholesalers and getting sent out to distribution centers and then out into stores.

· That is a rather complicated logistics chain, and that part of the business can get very interesting and kind of cumbersome. So, it takes a lot to understand and manage traditional distribution. But that's what we mean when we talk about it. And that's the bulk really of what we do here at Greenleaf.

· The people that we're selling to include, of course, the Barnes and Nobles, and the airport accounts, the wholesalers, the libraries, our international partners, and many others that we've built relationships with over our 25 years. So that is what we'll call traditional distribution.

· Then we have POD or print on demand, which is just as it sounds, the book does not exist until it's demanded. It lives digitally as a file sitting on a server. And then usually through an online strategy, somebody finds it and orders it. One copy of that book is produced and shipped directly to the consumer. So, it for the most part doesn't hit bookstore shelves, although it is possible to have POD books stocked in bookstores, if someone were to go to the front desk and request it or if that manager wanted to bring it in. And it's available in Ingram.

· A lot of my answers here are going to are going to be that it's gray or there are exceptions, or it depends. And that's because there is sort of a lot of crossover with these different approaches.

· The third one I'll talk about that we will lump authors into I guess is a an online only, and wholesale availability account. I won't go too deep down this rabbit hole because it's complicated. But we have certain authors who really don't care to abide by the buying timelines for a Barnes and Noble who wants to see things six months in advance, as we said earlier, and they're in a hurry to get their books out.

· They want it to be available online, but also be available through wholesale channels should someone care to order it through an indie bookstore. In those cases, we're sort of bypassing our team of sales reps and just going ahead and making it available in those wholesale databases, but primarily focusing our energy on the online listings.

· As you can see, we sort of pull from whichever distribution strategy we need to, here at Greenleaf at least, to suit the author's scenario and what they need as we assess their individual situations.

5:25 – And I'm glad you mentioned wholesalers, because this is also another area that a lot of authors are confused about: what the difference between a wholesaler and an actual distributor is. A lot of the time authors will go directly to Ingram or Baker and Taylor, for example, to get their books distributed, and then they are surprised when they're told that they actually need a distributor first. So, could you just speak a little bit about the difference there and what the process looks like?

· If we were to just draw a couple lines in the sand between wholesalers and distributors, one would be a distributor usually has some exclusivity. The books that they distribute are exclusively theirs to distribute versus a wholesaler has a warehouse full of a little bit of everything that they sell to their end retail users. The distributors for the most part are selling to other wholesalers, and retailers. The wholesaler, and this gets really complicated, is probably selling to retailers as well.

· The other line in the sand that I would say makes them different is that traditionally, a distributor has a proactive sales force that is championing the books it represents. And that might mean that you have people in house that are calling upon what we call house accounts. Or that might mean they have sales reps out in the field, driving their Subarus from independent bookstore to independent bookstore and trying to get those books blanketed across the country. Probably at some combination of those two things. But there are people working to get those books onto shelves.

· A wholesaler really makes books available. So, they may have an online catalog that the book is a part of. And that's where I think authors get confused, like my book is available on Baker and Taylor and it’s available on Ingram, but there's nobody out there pitching it or championing it and trying to get it into the accounts.

· So, where it gets even more confusing is when we start talking about Ingram which is largely regarded and I think their bigger capacity is as a wholesaler, however, they have a distribution arm. So, it's possible that if you're working with Ingram Publishing Services, they are actually your distributor. And they're also a wholesaler.

· I would ask the question of do you have somebody, a real human being, not just a database? Do you have somebody actively championing and pitching your books? If so, then that's probably a distributor.

8:17 – I've also heard from a lot of authors that they've seen advice online, telling them that they need to buy their ISBNs early. Could you just help us all understand what an ISBN actually is, and if authors do need to buy one before finding a publisher or distributor?

· ISBN is international standard barcode number. And just as that sounds, when you turn over the book, typically in the lower right hand corner you've got the barcode that's got the price and maybe even a subject listed as beside it. The ISBN is the series of numbers sitting above that barcode. It is like the book’s social security number. So, every book, every format, actually has its own ISBN.

· The ISBN is formatted in a way where the first part of the number is actually attributed to a given publisher. For that reason, I would say if you have aspirations to be published by someone else, I would not procure an ISBN because your publisher is actually going to be providing one of their own, so that the book is connected back to them in certain databases. It's not the end of the world if you do, it's just sort of a headache for the publisher. In the design process, that publisher would have to drop the original ISBN and replace it with theirs. It's just an unnecessary step.

· But if you are committed to self-publishing, and then finding a distributor to handle your self-published work, or we might say that you're indie published, it would make sense to have your own ISBN. If you're going to be connecting the book to your own brand, your own imprint, then definitely you should have your own ISBN.

10:09 – Tanya, here's a question that we get a lot, I certainly hear it all the time. What is the likelihood of getting a distributor to pick up their book for further distribution after it's been published elsewhere?

· That's a tough one. And once again, it depends. In this case, it depends on how it performed in terms of the sales performance in the retail market. We use a tool called Nielsen's BookScan, which is the same company that does sound scan for the recording industry, and they do their TV ratings. They are our best barometer of sales, making it all the way to the end consumer.

· So, if the book, when we look it up in that system, performed pretty well, even if it was just in certain markets, then a distributor might look at that and say, okay, it had a limited release, because it didn't have a distributor, and performed well, in the author's hometown, we think we can widen it, and there's still some opportunity to be realized. In that case, you might have a good shot, especially if you still have a lot of marketing lined up to support it.

· But if the book has kind of run its course, and it didn't make much of an impact and has very little sales history, there's not much that a distributor can do with it at that point, especially given the timelines that distributors and publishers typically work on with retail partners.

· So, bear in mind what we said earlier, where we are pitching our retail and wholesale partners, even six months before book comes out. So, if the book has already been out, we're already behind that eight ball, right? We already have a disadvantage. The only reason it would become compelling at that point is again, if we can point to some big surge in demand that's coming down the pipe for whatever reason that's well substantiated.

11:56 – Here's another one. Are all publishers also distributors and vice versa? Are all distributors also publishers?

· No, and no. Next question. Just kidding. Are all publishers also distributors? Certainly not. Because very often, in fact, publishers outsource distribution, it's quite difficult to build a distribution function within one's organization. Of course, we've done it here at Greenleaf, that's one of our big differentiators. For us, we were distributor before we added on the publisher arm.

· So, the reason it's difficult is that it's hard to open those new relationships. A lot of these retail and wholesale partners, they don't have the capacity to deal with any more partners. And a lot of them just are hesitant to bring on new partners, they'd rather route you to an existing distributor that they already worked with.

· Some publishers, especially big publishers do have distribution in house, but most of them farm it out. So that's fine, it's more important, above all, that they do have that distribution, but it will have implications on things like your royalties. If there's a middleman, obviously you'll have lower royalties. And then again, when you're working with a middleman, there's a little less control over what's happening with that third party sales team. So again, I'm a fan as long as there is a proactive sales force.

· And my pet peeve is people who call themselves full-service publishers, and they have zero distribution, not even a partner distributor. I feel like that's misleading.

· But to flip your question around are all distributors, publishers? No. Most of them represent multiple publishers, I would say very few of them actually have their own publishing arm. So again, we're weirdos that way. But I'm sure they're out there, I just don't think there are very many of them as there are quite different business models.

14:28 – Here's another one that comes up a lot. Greenleaf has authors from all over the world. And sometimes I'm asked, do all distributors distribute books internationally? And also, what can an author do if the publisher doesn't distribute to the country, or countries, I'd like to be in?

· I would say most legit distributors probably distribute internationally to a degree. When we're talking about English language books, there are certain markets that make more sense than others where you're just going to see more concentration in terms of how the international distribution is handled. There are probably some distributors out there that don't do international distribution.

· It gets tricky because again, right now we're talking about looping in a third party. And we've got to factor in the cost of shipping and freight. So, the margins just start to get really squeezed.

· When you're looking at international distribution, it can get complicated. If the distributor or publisher doesn't distribute to the country of your choice, I would say your choice at that point is, as long as you're sure you have the legal clearing to do this or the go ahead to do this, you could just approach a distributor that you find in the country of your choice and see if they might take a one off title. That's always an option. And some of them will, some won't, you have to do quite a bit of research.

· In general, distributors are wary of taking on an account that only brings them one title, because there's a certain cost and investment they have to make into any given account. And obviously, if they're only selling one book, out of that account, it gets harder to offset that investment. So still, there are plenty of resources for someone to consider when they're pursuing those unique international distribution opportunities.

16:21 – It goes without saying that a lot of authors who are looking for a distributor are really looking to increase their book sales. And one thing I get questions about all the time is how the sales cycle works when you're using a distributor. But also, if a bookstore is buying the books from a publisher does that mean that those books are going to be sold? What does that look like?

· Okay, one thing I think authors don't realize on the front end is how long this timeline is, and why they would be wise to honor it. And again, I think I've said it like three times now, but when we're pitching retailers and wholesalers, it's six months or longer, and frankly, they often prefer even more lead time. But at six months from pub date, we need to go to them with a pretty clear picture of what this book is. They don't like to go down the imagination road. So, we need to show them a cover design, we need to have a really solid representation of the content itself, marketing plans as buttoned up as we can get them that far in advance, and anything else that's persuasive and compelling to our pitch.

· It's frustrating to authors, because we have that meeting, and then there's radio silence for like six months before the book comes out. But those are their buying timelines. And when we're hitting them at that six-month mark, they have the largest available budget to bring in product. So, we always want to be pitching them when they have the most money in their wallet. And they can then program or model in the widest distribution for the titles that we're pitching.

· The further we move away from that six-month mark, and it does happen for various reasons, the budget that they have to work with for a given launch month has been allocated, obviously, to people who got there earlier, and we just start losing opportunities to widen distribution.

· So do books get crashed and come out with you know, one- or two-months’ notice? Yeah, you see it all the time when famous people die, or there's some current event thing in the news, and everybody hustles to get a book out about whatever this unexpected thing that happened was. So of course, it happens, and they have some surplus budget that sitting there for things like that, but they get real finicky when we don't stick to that six month timeline. So, we tend to orient all of our processes around it.

· To the second part of your question, there are two sales when we're talking about book selling. It's a curious industry because everything is sold returnable. 99.9% of things are sold returnable. There are always exceptions. But this is a practice that goes way back to the Depression, and it's just never been flipped.

· So, unlike let's say if you're selling apparel into some retailer and they don't sell it, well, they would put it on sale and eventually clearance and get rid of it and then it wouldn't come back to you. In the bookselling industry, the publisher sends 1000 or however many copies out into Barnes and Noble and that's the first sale. If the second sale of the consumer coming in and buying it off the shelf doesn't happen, then the books get returned to the publisher. And that undoes the sale for everybody.

· So, when we talk about two sales, that's what we mean. And when we beat this drum constantly, like we do about the need for the author to create demand, that's why we can do our job and get tons of books out into the supply chain.

· But there's no reason to if the author isn't creating demand, and they're all going to come right back. And worse, it starts to burn us and our reputation, it becomes the boy who cried wolf, right, we can go to our accounts, and say, this is the next big thing, and you should bring in 10s of 1000s. And then if they return 9999, the next time we tried to do that, they're going to look at us with one eye a little squinty and say, I don't know last time, it didn't really work out. So, we're cautious in that way as any good publisher would be. And always making sure that we're collaborating with our authors to button up that demand side of marketing their books and creating the pool that has to happen to make that second sale work.

21:06 – Okay, so here's an important one, because this ties in distribution, and that is the printing of books. So, a lot of authors ask me, how do we figure out how many we need to print? And what happens if we print those, and they don't sell?

· Yes, it's a good question. And it's such a moving target right now because there's a paper shortage in our industry. And we have to make this decision even earlier than we ever used to and with less information.

· So, in terms of the first part of your question, how many do we print? Really, it's a two-part equation with one part in our business model, saying, okay author, how many are you going to move through your own platform and on your side outside of what we call the trade publishing world? So, if they're a speaker, or they're selling them on their website, or back of room, through workshops, whatever it may be, there's a certain quantity we're hoping that they can estimate they may need over a year's time.

· And then on our side, we're going to look at the feedback and the purchase orders that we've received from our retail and wholesale partners, and make an educated guess, based on the quantities we see there and what we can anticipate for future demand just based on being a distributor for 25 years. We can look at something, anticipate based on those POs how it's going to perform over the coming months. Do we always get it exactly right? Of course not. Some books surprise us in either direction, some outperform, and some underperform. But we can make a pretty good guess of how many books we'll need to get us through a year.

· I put an asterisk on that in my brain because of this paper shortage and the fact that we keep shortening that timeframe, because it's taking so long right now just to get books. I think to be cautious, we might say, let's look at how many books you can move in six months, nine months just to be super cautious.

· I tend to advise authors, if they can, to err on the side of a smaller print run. And that way, as long as we have sufficient time to reprint, we have a little bit of flexibility should they get some major award or make a best sellers list, or some awesome review or endorsement comes in right after the book comes out. We can update it more easily on that second printing. Versus if we've got a warehouse of 15,000 units, which might have made sense at the time, because the cost per unit comes down with higher quantities, we can't update it as soon as we could with the obviously smaller print runs. So, there are tradeoffs to be had. It's a conversation and, in our case, collaborative decision that we arrive at with the author, and one that has passed some given takes.

24:11 – Brilliant, thank you for that insight. Tanya, to wrap things up, what parting advice would you give authors hoping to increase book sales and thinking of partnering with a distributor to do so?

· Well, definitely, I would say to be patient, do your homework, and reference check and do your own work diligently on these distributors to find out what sort of success they've had. If you can talk to some of the publishers or authors that they represent, I think that's always helpful. There are some trade organizations that you could look at like IBPA, Independent Book Publishers Association. There are certainly many people within those circles who would be happy to weigh in. It's a relatively small industry, in the sense that we all know who each other are and have opinions on our each other's work. So, I'm sure folks will be happy to talk once you start asking. Do ask.

· And of course, like I said earlier, find out if they have a proactive sales force. It's a question that a lot of authors don't know to ask. And it's such an important one to avoid disappointment later. It can be hard to sort of wind yourself from a relationship with a distributor. So, you definitely just want to be diligent on the front end and choose the right partner for you.

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ABOUT DAVID

David has a bachelor's degree in English from Rivier University and a master's degree in publishing from New York University. He worked in marketing and brand management roles for several different imprints at Penguin Random House before moving to Austin, Texas. As a Consultant at Greenleaf Book Group, David is involved in the acquisition and development of projects, liaising with all departments to help authors strategize world class book launches. David is a lifelong bibliophile, musician, soccer player, and ardent supporter of Arsenal FC and Austin FC.